to think you cannot possibly support a family on 29K?

[AliceBlackwell]

Please please please tell me I AM being unreasonable! My DH has been offered a wonderful job which he would love to take, but the pay is only 29K. Taking the job would mean leaving London, and while I do appreciate that salaries do drop outside London, I really fear that this is just not enough money to support a family.

Back story: we do not have children yet, plan on TTC in a few months. I am self-employed; when we have a baby I will have to stop work (at least for a few months) and will have no income. We have no savings, having recently finished paying off debt (credit cards, old student loans etc.) and do not own a house. This will mean moving to a new city, renting, trying to save for a mortgage, hopefully starting a family - all on 29K!

I have namechanged to prepare for inevitable flaming. I don't mind being told I am being unreasonable/ridiculous - I hope I am! It just seems such a huge drop from what we are earning now, and believe me, it doesn't feel like we are living the high life.
Please tell me money goes much further outside London, and that it would be possible to have a comfortable life on this money. I didn't grow up in the UK, and have only been living here a couple of years, so don't really have any point of reference apart from London. I know that we haemorrhage money just opening the front door here.

Looking forward to being told IABU.

Alice, you'll be a lovely mum. Of course you feel worried, it's important to think about salary! But it's not - as a (very) few people have suggested - necessary to be rich in order to be an adequate parent. I wish you all the best.

lol I dont work and dp's basic is lower than than that and we have two dc's and own our home etc... we manage.. We dont go out much but as dp says staying in is, infact, the new going out.... You will manage things are cheaper outside london.. I know as I used to live and work there before dc's came along//

Alice, your post was great. If you've had no reason to worry about money, there's no reason to feel chastised . I used to go out lots before I had children - both DH and I were working full time and I look back and think how much money we wasted on eating out, cinema, etc. You don't really think about it unless you have to. But, despite now having a joint income of less than £25K, despite having to be very careful about where every penny goes, I wouldn't swap my life for the world. It's about more than money.

Pippi, I'm looking at your list and I get by without half of those things.

"We spend £6 on milk, £3 on bread, £15 on fruit and veg with top ups in the week £10 on butter yogurts cheese £5 on soups for lunches £3 pasta and rice £8 tinned tuna/beans/sweetcorn/tinned toms £15 meat (sausages/mince/bacon/chicken) £5 tea and coffee fruit juice so no crusps chocolate etc in there"

OK. You'd have to drink a whole lot of tea to get through £5 worth a week. Coffee is too expensive. We don't buy it. Nor do we buy fruit juice or squash. We drink tap water. I think we are healthier for it. Meat. DD2 is veggie so I probably only cook 2 meat meals a week. Rest are bean/ egg/ cheese/ vegetable based. This makes it very much cheaper. Sweetcorn/tinned toms/ baked beans etc I get the value range and I don't think there's much difference. We do probably spend £15 on fruit and veg but we grow quite a lot of stuff in the garden.

"but then there are all the household items washing powder toilet rolls fabric softener bleach washing up liquid toothpaste shampoo bubble bath shower gel wet wipes razor blades hair mouse anti perspirant light bulbs batteries etc there is something on that list every week."

I get lots of this from poundland where money goes further. But there are things I don't buy, such as fabric softener and hair mousse, which are non essentials. I generally buy shampoo bars and block soap from Lush, which lasts for eons and keeps DD2 happy because it is ethical and green. We don't go in for wasteful plastic bottles of stuff.

This isn't meant to be critical in any way, just you said you needed tips!

UHT milk in cardboard boxes. Much cheaper than the fridge bottles.

Well, between us, DH and I earn about £31000. We live in greater London. We have a mortgage. We have two DCs. Dc1 is at Uni, DC2 at school. We run a small car. Yes, we do have debts, but we just about get by. DC1 gets student loans and a grant, but we still have to help out with food, since the loans and grant just about cover accommodation and books.

No, we do not have savings. No, we do not go on holidays abroad, and indeed, rarely manage to have a holiday in this country.

We do not smoke/drink lots of alcohol. Our special occasions are more likely to include a take away than a meal out. But we do get by. And from the sound of it, you will not be giving up work forever, so will eventually have your income again.

If you are able to, could you begin to save something regularly to help you through the time when you won't be working?

musicposy hurrah for another lushite!

we have 1 (nearly 2) dc's,a cat and a rabbit,and we get by just fine on 17,000pa.
im not saying we live the high life,but we eat well,live in a nice house,and have everything we need.
life is good,
stop worrying!

in 20yrs what will you think of this decision? will you be upset that you lost out on money?!

Until I moved to London I thought that if you were earning more than £30,000 you had MADE IT.

My DP and I lived in a modest, beautfully decorated little one-bed in Glasgow which cost us £525 a month. Our current flat is avery slightly bigger and not nearly as nice, and costs us double that. I earn more here but we have far less disposable income.

Outside London must seem like a free-for-all to people who have lived in the city all their lives.

We intend to move back home before having kids but unfortunately due to the job situation I don't see how that's going to happen.

You see - it's partly about choice. If I had to get by on sweetcorn and no coffee, I would think things were pretty dire. Think about not being able to have a friend round for a cup of coffee.

Grim.

we have coffee,nice coffee.
nice tea too...

and we're awful at budgeting,
and we're fine.

That's a big drop in income you're talking about, there'd have to be a long list of positives to go with the drop on income for me to consider it.

Try monitoring your spending for a month, write down where every penny goes. You'll probably be shocked how much you spend on taxis and going out, and buying things you don't really need!

Thanks again everyone. DH and I have just sat down together and read every one of your posts to each other. We realise there is no point being revisionist; the only way is forward. It has stimulated a really useful discussion for us, and we have started doing a spreadsheet and talking about numbers. Even if we don't make this move, this talk has been brilliant for us.
Thank you

Good luck! It is very scary making the move, we talked long and hard about our respective career changes (you'd be nuts not to!) but I can honestly say we haven't regretted it for a second. And besides, all sorts of doors might open! I guess the key is making sure you know what is important to you in your lifestyle, everyone here can give you lists of ways to save money but everyone is different, you won't necessarily want sackclothes and ashes!

"You see - it's partly about choice. If I had to get by on sweetcorn and no coffee, I would think things were pretty dire. Think about not being able to have a friend round for a cup of coffee.

Grim."

I've never felt that it's grim, actually. None of us like coffee much and our friends all seem happy with a cup of tea (or are too polite to say, but they still come round ). If it was important to us, we would get it and cut out something else. We're not big food people, I guess. If we were, we'd eat more expensive stuff and drop the girls' dance or skating lessons. I do agree with you that it's all about choices.

Sometimes I do think it would be lovely not to have to choose at all, but just buy what we like. But realistically, that's not going to happen unless a) I return to full time work, which I don't want to do, and b) I find a richer man, which I don't want to do because I love DH. So, choices again. I have much richer friends but there's no way I'd want their lives - but then, they probably wouldn't want mine.

This is why I think Alice is being really sensible thinking about this; it's good to think about what you want in life and what your priorities are. Ultimately, you can only choose the life that makes you happy and that isn't going to be the same for everyone.

That's true, DH and I were talking about this only yesterday. The key is working our how much things are worth to you. We have coffee but if it were a choice between coffee and not being a SAHM for the next few years the coffee would be out of the window. It just isn't worth that much to me/us! That tends to be my way of looking at 'things' now.

those who say that London is a bubble should try moving to Edinburgh! A four bedroom small victorian semi/terraced house in a nice area with a tiny garden is minimum 500K, and can often be more like 1m depending on size etc. Detached family house in nice part of edinburgh is well into 7 figures. 4 bed new build houses on nice modern estates within reasonable distance of city centre also 500k plus.

can someone please tell me how and where you can get a mortgage on 18K? and what price house you can afford?
I've looked on mortgage calculators and most I've been offered is 70k on combined income of 25k. We are in london at the moment and know we can't survive here much longer.

I agree with lougle. All these people who are supporting families of 4+ on 15-30 grand a year how much additional support are you getting from the state? Also a mortgage of 300 quid would not get you a bedsit in London, let alone a family house. A single room in a house share is about 500 quid!

Yep - don't think it's that helpful to say 'I supported all 20 of my kids and the rabbits on tuppence ha'penny and flew off to the Maldives every summer" if they managed to buy their house for 10 grand.

Or whatever.

It's about now. And no, £29k will not get you on the property ladder in many areas of this country.

But, by cutting out ALL FOOD, you should be able to save up for a deposit in a few years' time.

one thing that hasnt been mentioned much is that people are different and have different priorities -

some people wouldn't TTC until settled in their own family home with garden, car etc;

other people (myself included) are more of the opinion that babies don't need that much stuff and are very adaptable, and that being happy is just way more important. my eldest was born when we were in a rented 1 bed flat! and all was fine.

Also Alice you'll be on more than 29K when you are also working, right? it'll only drop to that once you stop working for a bit. you'll also get child benefit etc and I'm sure you'll be surprised at the many other ways you can find to make money (sell stuff on ebay; i used to fill in online surveys while at home with ds on mat leave and every so often would get a cheque for £50 which i'd use for treats like clothes / nights out; car boot sales; maybe you can work from home once the LO is a bit older) - also your DH's salary could go up. if you're the type of person who likes a challenge, it can be quite fun coming up with new resourceful ways to save money / live within budget. you should definitely have enough for basics though, if you are prepared to rent.

that was a long way of saying - don't worry about money, i would be more interested in whether i was ready for such a drastic lifestyle change. i couldn't bear to move out of london, i would miss my friends and the pace of life here...

oh and before anyone starts, i didn't mean "it's fun having no money" - just that on £29K they should have enough for the basics and can therefore use their initiative to find ways to afford whatever "extras" it is they want if that makes sense

realise that sounded crude when i read it back, no offence intended at all

We took out our mortgage before TTC while I was still working full-time. I know there's no way we'd get a mortgage now on DHs salary alone. By cutting back elsewhere when DS was born I was able to be a sahm whilst still being able to afford the repayments. Don't get me wrong it can be a struggle but it's so worth it.

Didn't think your OP sounded remotely spoilt, Alice. I'm amazed at the number of people on here who talk about owning a house, running a car and having more than one child on significantly less than 29K, to be honest.

DP and I live in Zone 2 where we rent a 2-bed flat for £1500 a month. We have a car, spend £70 a week on groceries, go abroad once or twice a year but otherwise live very simply (might go out to dinner a couple of times a month, or to the theatre a few times a year). DP earns £40K but about 12K a year goes on repaying student loans/cards. I have PhD funding, but £800 of the £1300 I get each month goes straight onto rent. I have minimal savings, and the DP has none. We're planning to start trying for a baby in the next year, but I'm prepared for things to be tight.

You're absolutely right to be doing your research!

Sorry I should have typed '£800 or the £1000 I get every month...'