Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think you cannot possibly support a family on 29K?

444 replies

AliceBlackwell · 30/07/2010 13:35

Please please please tell me I AM being unreasonable! My DH has been offered a wonderful job which he would love to take, but the pay is only 29K. Taking the job would mean leaving London, and while I do appreciate that salaries do drop outside London, I really fear that this is just not enough money to support a family.

Back story: we do not have children yet, plan on TTC in a few months. I am self-employed; when we have a baby I will have to stop work (at least for a few months) and will have no income. We have no savings, having recently finished paying off debt (credit cards, old student loans etc.) and do not own a house. This will mean moving to a new city, renting, trying to save for a mortgage, hopefully starting a family - all on 29K!

I have namechanged to prepare for inevitable flaming. I don't mind being told I am being unreasonable/ridiculous - I hope I am! It just seems such a huge drop from what we are earning now, and believe me, it doesn't feel like we are living the high life.
Please tell me money goes much further outside London, and that it would be possible to have a comfortable life on this money. I didn't grow up in the UK, and have only been living here a couple of years, so don't really have any point of reference apart from London. I know that we haemorrhage money just opening the front door here.

Looking forward to being told IABU.

OP posts:
InLimboAgain · 29/06/2011 17:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Riveninside · 29/06/2011 17:54

Mumble, i dont know anyone whose ctc is the same as their pittance. Usually it pays back what you pay is tax. So earn 17k, lose 4k roughly in tax, get 4 or 5 k back in benefits. Those ar rough figures as ctc depends on how many children. But there are many people where salary plus ctc plus cb doesnt come near 29k. In london too as well as other cities.
They have no choice but to manage.
I also think its goinb to get worse now the cover for childcare is dropping to 70% for low earners, with gas and electric going up 20% and the rise in VAT.

I know if we got an extra 9k it would actually be spare as we scrape by. But then im sure id start to see holidays and new clothes and activities as 'essential'.

Out of intrest i sat looking throu the jobs section in todays local paper. This is the second most expensive city to rent/by after London. The jobs were full time and paying mostly between 14 and 18k a year. Those were standard jobs requiring A levels plus experience. There wasnt a graduate section as thats on friday. Thats pretty crap.

Riveninside · 29/06/2011 17:55
  • buy Blush
mumblechum1 · 29/06/2011 18:05

I'm really just going by clients who I advise to get a job stacking shelves; they will earn about £650 pm, then get another £650 in WTC, CTC, other benefits like free prescriptions, school meals, etc etc.

Someone earning a decent salary will see a significant chunk (40%) disappear, so it evens the scales between a low earner on benefits and a decent earner paying 40p in the pound in tax.

Must admit I'm not an expert, though, we've never been entitled to anything except CB.

Georgimama · 29/06/2011 18:13

When I was earning 17K per year out of interest I looked into what I would be entitled to by way of benefits if I were a single parent on that income (on the entitledto website). I would have got a smidge off a thousand pounds a month in WTC, CTC, CB and HB. My net income would have been pretty what it is now, on 32K gross.

scarlettsmummy2 · 29/06/2011 18:15

haven't read all the posts but I can totally see why that would stress you. It is one thing if you already have a mortgage but it will be very difficult to get one on that salary alone without a twenty percent deposit.

we live in Edinburgh, have a joint salary of 80k, but we certainly aren't living the high life! childcare is very expensive, council tax is £280 a month, mortgage, car payments, gas, food prices rocketing etc.

29k is fine if it is one of two incomes, but rather than tell your husband its not reasonable why not get a secure job yourself??

PrincessScrumpy · 29/06/2011 18:23

We manage on £24.5K, have a nice 3 bed house in the west country, one dd (3) and twins on the way. We have 2 cars - fairly new ones, and nice things. We also went on holiday abroad last summer - only managing Cornwall this year but that's due to pg not money. Couldn't do it in London but depending on where it is and your expectations, should be fine.

Riveninside · 29/06/2011 18:25

Very very low income then yeah, with two or more kids the ctc will be nearly as high asbthe wages.
We are waiting for the ctc renewal. Another child turning 18 and leaving us. Sob
And they still ask for money and clothes and food!

marycorporate · 29/06/2011 18:30

Riven, you get 80% of your childcare paid for if you are on a low wage so say if you earn 500 a month, you could be claiming 650 in ctc then goodness knows what in wtc. You can claim far more in tc than you earn if you play the system right. Never understood why they call them 'tax credits' to be honest, it's very rarely anything to do with acredit for the tax you pay.

If you have 1, or possibly 2, children in childcare and work 16 hours a week in a low paid job, you will actually take home the equivilent of a 24k salary. And you won't be paying any tax at all. Plus you won't even be technically claiming benefits, just tax credits... which they sell to us as something completely different so as to not have to declare people who rely on them as 'benefits claimants'

PrincessScrumpy · 29/06/2011 18:59

Wish we got tax credits to help with childcare - we do get child benefit though.

daddydaycare51 · 29/06/2011 23:56

Hi I am a single dad of 4 children 8 , 9 , 11 and 13 and I receive £19,500 per year and I live up north. I receive DLA (high rate) for my 11 yr old son £622 per mth and that includes my carers allowance of £220 per mth (full time carer). This equates to £7464 of the 19,500 in DLA payments which leaves £12,036 which is made up of Child Ben , Income sup (mine) and child tax credits (for the children) I just wonder where I would be without the DLA payment for my son ????

MrsKravitz · 30/06/2011 06:45

I live up north in an area where £29k would be a struggle tbh.

Pootles2010 · 30/06/2011 06:51

Erm - depends where outside London! We're in York, joint income of 50k , which is just enough for us to pay mortgage, save, pay nursery fees and have driving lessons. Obv alll those things are expensive, but don't think could manage on 29 k no. Maybe in cheaper parts of Yorkshire?

Riveninside · 30/06/2011 08:36

They are clearly needed mary if people are struggling on 50 k! We dont claim childcare cos the kids are at school and i dont work. Our total inco e with ctc and cb is under 20k anx we have to pay the mortgage out of that. No free presciptions either.

Given the average salary is 24k, the majority of the population do get by on under 29k which was the old OP worry. Even in London and soithern cities.

Pootles2010 · 30/06/2011 08:45

Think a lot depends on mortgage etc. A lot of those who bought a while ago have tiny mortgages, ours is 800 on a 2 bed terrace, add 700 nursery fees to that and you see where it all goes!

However we are certainly not struggling- we can afford a car, and my lessons, just saying we couldn't do it on 29k.

Riveninside · 30/06/2011 08:52

True. We are lucky in that our mortgage is only 7k a year. Its a big chunk out of our income but we manage.
Seems to me its house prices. Food and fuel is pretty much the same in London and out of London. Even here rents are 900 - 1400 for an average 3 bed house in a rough area. Thats close to what dh earns a month. Its ridiculous. And many are paid much less than him.
Without tax. Redits to pay for food the acerage person, 24k and under would go under. How the fuck was that allowed to happen? :(

fgaaagh · 30/06/2011 09:18

marycorporate said If you have 1, or possibly 2, children in childcare and work 16 hours a week in a low paid job, you will actually take home the equivilent of a 24k salary.

Georgimama When I was earning 17K per year out of interest I looked into what I would be entitled to by way of benefits if I were a single parent on that income (on the entitledto website). I would have got a smidge off a thousand pounds a month in WTC, CTC, CB and HB. My net income would have been pretty what it is now, on 32K gross.

And that's pretty much why the country is fucked - the government has subsidised private company wage bills to an unsustainable level for years. Employers aren't paying a living wage across the board, with the exception of the nice little top of the pyramid - tough luck if you're at the bottom or middle of the pile though - hence why the real income gap between those at the top and those at the bottom is getting wider and wider.

What kind of country can function in the long term where the majority of its able bodied working population need such huge percentages of income top ups to pay their basic living costs (food, council tax, accommodation). It's madness to think we could sustain this (although good for votes in the long term... vote for us or we're going to take away XYZ credit).

My sister has a husband who has been working a 6 day week for the last 2 years to top up the household income - he's working in a manual (unskilled) job for just slightly above minimum wage. She also has been working 3 or 4 days a week for most of the last year, doing admin on NMW for her old employer. However, with the recent rises in petrol and other household costs, it's wiped out any profit in it at all, she's looked into the extra stuff they'd be entitled to if she worked only 16 hours a week (saving in childcare, plus extra top ups) or not at all, she has concluded that there's really no point having this stressed-out constantly-manic situation at home with BIL working so much, and where the kids are getting packed off to childcare whilst she's not even making any money or extra benefit from working close to full time until they're at school, esp. since the job doesn't have any longterm prospects or promotions/ability to top up income (it's a tiny firm - a family owned chain of 4 hardware shops).

And you know what? Despite being in a duel-working household myself, I can 100% understand why she's decided that it would be better for their kids if she stayed at home and stopped work, or cut down her hours. The government will step in to fill the income gap, and stuff like free glasses, prescriptions, etc will help if she can get her hands on them; I'm not sure exactly how much BIL earns but I know he was on £6.20/hr ish last year.

But it's a broken, unsustainable situation to support longterm, across many households, if you're the government.

The real issue is that for many women (and men), if you're in a lowly paid job, either NMW or a few grand above it each year, there is nothing extra in material gain to be working fulltime or working hard. There's self esteem, and perhaps long term career prospects in some jobs, but not all - repetative, boring lowly paid jobs consist of the bulk of NMW jobs. But the costs of working (childcare, commuting, work clothes) often wipe out any extra financial gain in those situations.

Until you're earning a semi-professional salary and can start to see a difference between "what I've earned in a job" and "what I can earn in top ups and associated benefits" there's little incentive to work more hours/harder in the short/medium term.

In summary, I'm not arguing for a reduction in benefits - rather, I'm arguing for a reduction in tax credits, and for private industry to start paying their employees a living wage, without needing government intervention to top up their false salary bills. Unfortunately, this country has become so reliant on the low wages that the true cost of some goods is totally alient to your average shopper.

mumblechum1 · 30/06/2011 09:25

spot on, fgaaah.

Indigojohn · 30/06/2011 09:29

Applauds fgaaah very loudly indeed

Riveninside · 30/06/2011 09:29

I think you are right fgaaaah. And a return tk sensible house prices otherwise our children will never buy or even afforx to rent. When i had my older three kids tax credits didnt exist. But a mortgage on a decent family house was £300 per month and the price of a house was three times the average salarries.
Now even those working hard still need housing benefit top ups to afford rent so the tax payer is paying the mortgage for some buy to let landlord. This cant be right! We need council houses back too.

Pootles2010 · 30/06/2011 09:34

Agree with Riven in that house prices are key. I think you've got the baby boomer generation who have done very well for themselves, people like my parents in law who bought their council house for peanuts, and have just sold it on for £300,000, and we've now ended up with not enough council houses, and that's pushed prices way too high.

How on earth are children going through school now going to manage, with 30k of tuition fees, and needing to stump up 20% deposits?

mumblechum1 · 30/06/2011 09:41

I agree Pootles. We're budgeting on over £100k to get ds through med school if he gets in, or £50k to do a three year degree (which is looking more attractive by the day). We will then have little left to help with a deposit for a house because if he lives around here the cheapest half decent flat is going to be £250k.

Indigojohn · 30/06/2011 09:45

Erm, why are you paying his ui feees when he can get a very cheap loan that he will pay back at a very low rate? Hmm

And why on earth would you be paying for a doctor to get on the property ladder?
Have you gone along to uni interviews with him aswell? Grin

marycorporate · 30/06/2011 09:46

fgaaaah is spot on.

PrincessScrumpy why don't you get help with childcare? Are you over the 50k threshold? If so, i don't see how you are 'wishing' you received help with your childcare when they are people earning minimum wage who need benefits more. (As a family we earn more than that so I'm not in the "You earn 50k therefore you're loaded" club)

I would like to see the government including families who rely on TC in their' benefits' figures. So we can really see how much the average working family is actually costing us. Then more people might get behind increasing minimum wage.

Indigojohn · 30/06/2011 09:47

Although mumble - you have managed to sneak several stealth boasts in, impressive!

  1. That you can save 100K.
  2. That your Ds is going to Med school
  3. That you live in a very expensive area.

You gotta love Mumsnet! Grin

Swipe left for the next trending thread