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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think you cannot possibly support a family on 29K?

444 replies

AliceBlackwell · 30/07/2010 13:35

Please please please tell me I AM being unreasonable! My DH has been offered a wonderful job which he would love to take, but the pay is only 29K. Taking the job would mean leaving London, and while I do appreciate that salaries do drop outside London, I really fear that this is just not enough money to support a family.

Back story: we do not have children yet, plan on TTC in a few months. I am self-employed; when we have a baby I will have to stop work (at least for a few months) and will have no income. We have no savings, having recently finished paying off debt (credit cards, old student loans etc.) and do not own a house. This will mean moving to a new city, renting, trying to save for a mortgage, hopefully starting a family - all on 29K!

I have namechanged to prepare for inevitable flaming. I don't mind being told I am being unreasonable/ridiculous - I hope I am! It just seems such a huge drop from what we are earning now, and believe me, it doesn't feel like we are living the high life.
Please tell me money goes much further outside London, and that it would be possible to have a comfortable life on this money. I didn't grow up in the UK, and have only been living here a couple of years, so don't really have any point of reference apart from London. I know that we haemorrhage money just opening the front door here.

Looking forward to being told IABU.

OP posts:
vouvrey · 02/08/2010 20:38

My £330pcm pays a mortgage of £110000, I put down £12k from sale of previous flat+selling shares+ £2k overdraft. It's interest only though, over 30 yrs.

Xenia · 02/08/2010 22:35

Everyone is loking at thiscompletely the wrong way. You earn £30k more than your husband and he's reducing his income to £29k I think you said so say he's on £40k and you're on £70k, £110k and you're thinking of not earning much yourself whilst the family income reduces to this tiny salary he's considering in a place you both don't know .... well why not just keep working as you are?

Iexclusively breastfed and took 2 weeks off to have my babies. They have done really well, oldest is 25, youngest two are 11 and it's the perfect solution. You won;t like being with a baby all day. Borrow a friend's for a few days and you;ll see it's very messy, boring and after a while you l ose interest but it's great fun to have them for a few hours a day and it's a wonderflu experience fully to breastfeed them as I did including twins.

This is a win win situation. If you would commute to London 3 days a week to work why not make your husband commute to Bristol. It's not that far on the train from Brstol from London - I have often done it and back in a day and then he gets his low paid dream job in a city you may not like and you keep your work up too and all is well .

Or you could move out further on the outer edges of the tube where you can buy a house with garden for £250k , no need to live in the centre of London.

StarlightMcKenzie · 02/08/2010 23:11

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EmmaKateWH · 02/08/2010 23:16

just had to comment re Xenia and her little gem of a post re fewer life chances outside of London!! WTF?? talk about clueless - there is a whole world out there you know. I grew up outside London (which was a lot nicer than growing up in London would have been), and had no difficulty getting into a top university and a competitive career. Same goes for brother and sister who are both doctors at leading hospitals. Clearly it hasn't rendered us too backward growing up in the provinces! Having grown up in London my parents knew better than to subject their own children to the same experience. Have you actually been to some of the other towns and cities in the UK? We do have things like art galleries and theatres and restaurants you know - its not all mega bowl and toby carvery!

JackJacksmummy · 02/08/2010 23:17

YABU

the cost of living is so much higher in London, plus you learn to live within your means.

When DP and I got together he was on 18k, i was part time working so about 7k, we had one child between us. Now we have 3 children and i have been out of work for 7 months, he had to take a 5k pay cut due to recession and we are managing, and I've got a new job so feel really really well off, even though we will still be earning less than the 25k we originally was.

Heracles · 02/08/2010 23:19

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draftywindows · 02/08/2010 23:23

Why the harsh reponse? I think that was totally uncalled for.

SpeedyGonzalez · 02/08/2010 23:27

AliceBlackwell, it depends on where you'll be moving to. Lots of places are as expensive as London (or close to), so £29k, sadly, won't go a very long way.

Take a look at the moneysavingexpert.com website for tips on budgeting - they have a great 'budget brain tool' to help you organise your finances better and help you work out how much money you need.

Heracles · 02/08/2010 23:30

Why the harsh response?? Ha ha! Oh mercy.

Helokitty · 02/08/2010 23:45

Alice,
Have you thought about moving somewhere like Chippenham?

You can rent a two bed house for just over £500 a month. A monthly season pass for the train into Bristol is £150 a month, So for £700 a month that's your home and travel sorted (assuming your DH works somewhere close to Temple Meads).

Plus, Chippenham is closer to London, so your commute to London would be just over an hour by train - some people do commute to London daily.

The benefits of Chippenham is that is has great schools, and has a lovely little community. However, you can be in Bristol in just over half an hour. House prices are reasonable too, you can get a 3 bed house in a reasonable (but not the best) area for 160k.

SpeedyGonzalez · 02/08/2010 23:51

2 beds for £500 a month?!!!

Heracles - I agree that your response was horrible and out of line. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere with reasonable housing costs you should count your blessings rather than insulting other people.

MadameBelle · 02/08/2010 23:56

AliceBlackwell, Bristol is a great place to bring up children, and you can have a fabulous lifestyle here - as you said, it has a great deal to offer in terms of the arts, culture, music etc, it is easy and quick to get around, and you can be out to wales/the seaside/ the countryside in a matter of minutes.

Housing is expensive, but not prohibitively. I think you need to remember that you won't have no income forever, and you will probably have the opportunity for serious saving for about a year before you have to take the cut in your income.

We have several friends here (I live in Bristol if you hadn't gathered!) who work in London. Some regularly who stay maybe 2/3 nights a week with family or friends in London, others, like my dh, who have to go up at a moment's notice. He goes there and back easily in a day, at least once a week.

When we first arrived in Bristol our income was about 40k but we had 2 dc already. We rented a big 3 bed garden flat on the downs for £1000 a month. It had plenty of space for our 60 metres of books (we had to have 2 lorries drive our books from our old house because there were so many they would have weighed the removals lorry down too much). We thought we were just passing through Bristol and would stay a max of 5 years. Now all the 3 dc are settled in school, we've been here 7 years and I can't imagine moving. We have developed good work contacts in the city, I work p/t now and our income has steadily risen.

Your scenario of living off 29k would not be forever. Just a specific time to budget through. Sounds easily possible to me.

Good luck, and if you want more info on Bristol, do go onto the local chat board. There's normally someone around.

Heracles · 03/08/2010 00:32

@Speedy: I live somewhere where housing costs are frankly insulting, but I'm also aware of people who live on far less than £29k a year (and they'd include benefits, something the OP hasn't mentioned).

To suggest you "cannot possibly support" a family on that, temporarily, as graduates, with all the potential that implies, is frankly insulting to those doing a great job with far fewer resources.

SpeedyGonzalez · 03/08/2010 00:56

Ahhh, so, Heracles, that justifies calling someone "full of shit"?

Heracles · 03/08/2010 01:00

Yeh, I think so. Would "brainless and thoughtless" have been more tactful?

Honestly: "Waaaah! How am I to survive on £29k plus benefits plus when I go back to my self-employment plus I'm not actually pregnant so there's nothing to stop me saving some fucking money".

OK, maybe not full of it, but I wouldn't volunteer to swim in it, yeah?

SpeedyGonzalez · 03/08/2010 01:18

Well, let's see now. Other people who, like you, thought the OP was being U, wrote constructive comments. You just insulted her. So would you be happy for someone to apply the 'brainless, thoughtless and full of shit' label to you?

Heracles · 03/08/2010 01:22

If I was being so then I would expect it, yeah. Would I be happy being brainless, thoughtless and full of shit? Probably not, but then that'd be my problem, wouldn't it?

Am I wrong in my assertion that it's insulting to people who are doing a fantastic job on less than that or not? After all, isn't that the topic of the thread?

solo · 03/08/2010 01:37

I'm in SE London and have brought upmy family on much less than £29k. At one stage I had my mortgage, a car loan and a motorcycle loan as well as my son ~ on my own! I was on about £18k. YABU.

Xenia · 03/08/2010 07:31

If the comment had been directed a me that might have been more understandable and I like robust debate.

I still think the life chances and making of a lot of money which of course plenty of women with babies in London do is possible but move a bit further out.

The Chippenham idea sounded good too or somewhere equidistant. Why move to near where the man works when you want to be in London and when most well paid work is in London? You can live in all kinds of nice commuter places near London and your children will tend to do better. Why do we think so very many of the best A level results schools are in the SE> It's amazing that statistic but I think it says it all, not that Bristol is that bad of course compard to some places. I just don't like the inherent sexism in moving where a man is and also in assuming you won't earn when you have a baby. If you earn more than him he should be the one at home changing nappies for 6 months bringing th ebaby out to breastfeed from you whilst you work athome when you need it. He will earn so little his wage is the gross cost of a nanny anyway so how can the family econmics work on the basis this low paid man will work and you'llback off work? I just don't undrestand the logic when you can perfectly easily feed on demand and work from home/be self employed and work full time and have a baby.

tegan · 03/08/2010 07:39

i havent read the whole thread but i would like to say uabu seeing as i am sahm, dh earns £25 per annum and we support 3 dc, a mortgage and paying off old debts

mumblechum · 03/08/2010 10:05

I think Xenia makes some very good points re. the necessity (or not) of moving to the man's work when he's going to be taking a very big drop in salary.

I don't know Chippenham but somewhere half way would seem a sensible solution to me.

SanctiMoanyArse · 03/08/2010 11:17

'We do have things like art galleries and theatres and restaurants you know - its not all mega bowl and toby carvery! '

We ahve a museum AND an amphitheatre AND a Toby carvery here LOL

(NB whilst I know every town has a museum usually, albeit often a dusty place celebrating the invention of the squeezy toothpaste tube in their town in 1968, we are a small little place so that is actually quite good)

NewbeeMummy · 03/08/2010 12:03

I won't say you're being unreasonable, but I think you need to look at your life as a whole.

Do you like to have the latest gadgets, a big swanky house, the latest cars, nice holiday's abroad?

We live in the M4 corridor in one of the most expensive areas, we have 1 DD, and plan on having another in the next few years. We survive quite happily on my £30K salary, we have a nice house (albeit not huge, but it has a garden and all the space we need) which we rent at the market rate, we have two cars, one new-ish family car and one "fun" car, we have a modest savings account, and take at least 3 holidays a year (granted these are typically based in the UK and I guess what people would term low budget, but it's what suits us)

I'm by no means boasting, but I think we manage quite happliy on my salary, and I know we're lucky as there are people a lot worse off than we are.

Obviously I would never say no to a larger salary, but it is by no means a pittance to live on, it's all about the choices you make.

Things you probably need to consider in your decision is why you OH wants to change jobs, and will this affect your job?

Bumpsadaisie · 03/08/2010 12:49

Xenia

Right, I see you enjoy a robust debate so I won't hold back! I think you are talking utter nonsense about the need to bring up kids in/near London in order for them to have opportunities.

It is possible to grow up elsewhere eg somewhere as "out of it" as South Lakeland, get all A's at A level at the local state school, get a first from Cambridge, become at solicitor at what many people regard as the most prestigious law firm in the City etc.

Assuming DD and any future DS are bright enough to pass the entrance exam, they will go to the Lancaster Grammar schools. Now league tables are only one factor, but I'm pretty confident that these are good schools that will stretch them academically - here are A level results from last year:

Lancaster Royal Grammar (Boys) 1139.1
Westminster 1125.3
North London Collegiate 1085.5
Eton 1084.6
Lancaster Girls' Grammar 1064.8
St Paul's Girls 1049.6
St Paul's Boys 1032.2
Winchester 1024.9
Habs Boys 943.8
Habs Girls 932.7

They send lots of children onto Oxbridge who then move down to London or other major cities as they choose when they graduate, depending on what career they choose.

If my DCs aren't bright enough for the grammar schools then they will go to the local comprehensive which I attended myself, graded outstanding on all measures and with an A level score of 917.4 last year. Because we are in the country and it is an ex-grammar school, it has acres of playing fields, cricket ground, indoor sports hall, swimming pool, drama studio and god knows what else. From the playing fields you can see both the mountains of the South Lakes and the Yorkshire Dales. It's a far far cry from the run-down comps of London where the kids are lucky if there is a place to shoot a few hoops.

The difference for my DCs is that they get to grow up in the country when they are little, with lots of space, great communities, and where life is not all about spending money and rushing about. Could my DD enjoy toddling around feeding the pigs and chickens if we were still living in London or Cambridge? Would she be headed a little primary school with 45 kids (most of whom, even though older, she will already know very well already though the village community) with a brilliant inspiring headteacher who teaches them Westmorland Clog dancing, fencing, tennis, French and Spanish, music, swimming and all the rest?

Lots of my lovely friends from Cambridge are still in London and I pity them, tbh. Most of them went to prestigious independents and now killing themselves trying to keep eight balls in the air at the same time. Most of them would love a quieter pace of life but their uber-competitive schooling has made it impossible for them to take a step in that direction without feeling that their self-worth will plummet as a result.

It's a robust statement but my opinion is that London is a crap place to bring up children. Now, I am sure there are pockets where there are decent communities and good state schools. But the general picture is that you either (1) make sure you have a lot of money, can live in Hampstead like my best friend and send your DCs to uber-competitive prep schools at great cost, in order that they can be prepped for Westminster/St Paul's or (2) fret about your DCs going to the state schools with all the yobbery, drink, drugs and violence that that entails. Neither of these polarised choices appeal to me.

Even if I had the money to do what my best friend does, that is not the life I would want for my DC. There is more to life than being successful and having a lot of money.

I've done all that - first from Cambridge, top flight legal career, loads of money, loads of coffees, suits from Hobbs, umpteen taxi rides (£40 on taxis every weekend as a matter of course !), weekends in foreign cities, long-haul vacations and all the bloody rest of it and do you know what, I am FAR happier now, living much more modestly and doing a job which is less prestigious for a smaller firm. I wouldn't go back if you bought me a mansion in Chelsea and gave me all the cash in the world.

If my DC want to enter that world, then fair enough - after all I wanted to when I was younger. But they can do it from up here with a gentler childhood. You just don't need to be at an independent school in London to be successful.

We moved back here when we had DD and lo and behold, lots of my school friends who moved down to London/other cities have done exactly the same thing! We didn't know how good we had it when we were little and took it all totally for granted.

I know I will have offended some Londoners and I apologise. I don't mean to, but at the same time I can't give my true opinion without offending you.

Spacehoppa · 03/08/2010 13:00

If you don't have a massive mortgage you should be ok. I suppose this depends on what city you are moving to and what sort of area you want to live in

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