AIBU to think that although we may be lucky, it hasn't all been down to just luck

[Litchick]

Have a friend staying at the moment and she has told DC that our very comfortable existence is all a matter of luck.
Luck that we were born in the west. Luck to be clever. Luck to have reasonable parents etc.

I know she's right, and yet I want to impress upon DC that it hasn't been like winning the lottery. We have had to work our arses off and still do.

AIBU, or should I just leave it that indeed we are incredibly lucky?

we've just had a lengthy discussion about this one while we had our tea
we're all of the opinion that your friend is right and most things are down to some sort of luck in the first place. Mind you the dcs are bound to think this as I've brainwashed been telling them since they were tiny that they're extremely privileged to be born where and who they are

...mind you we have friends who have the complete opposite view- they think that they've got to where they are down to Hard Work etc and anyone who doesn't achieve the same level of material wealth/success or whatever simply isn't trying hard enough.

I think it's best to let your dcs make up their own minds and expose them to different points of view (as you've been doing!)- as I say to my dcs- "this is my opinion; others are available"

I have always worked hard and enjoyed my studies BUT i made some very bad choices as a teenager and they have affected the rest of my life.
I chose the wrong career. You can work fiercly hard but get a bad wage and low status in some jobs whereas if I'd become a doctor I would have worked hard for sure but I would have far more money and status than if I'd been a teacher as I am now.

My relationship choices have been the choices that have really held me back however, and that's why I feel I will have a better career if I'm not in one.

the luck versus judgement/hard graft debate continues to rage on at casa litchick.
DH has arrived home and pointed out that he and I are from disadvantaged backgrounds and didn't let it hold us back in any way.

I'm tempted to point out that we did have luck though, in born being clever and thus able to make a go of things easier than some might have...but friend has beaten me to it.

it is relative.we are lucky to have sanitation,clean water,free heathcare.no absolute poverty in uk

BUT there is relative uk poverty as measured against wages.and many people really do scrimp by in a very meagre way

we should talk to our dc about advantages they have

I work in a very competitive industry and get to travel more widely than most people. I am often told, "you're so lucky".

I always bite my tongue whilst inwardly remembering the years I spent working for £20 per day, sleeping eight to a room, working twelve hour days, getting beat up, verbally abused etc. I have had guns pulled on me, been assaulted by police, worked through the night into the next day too many times to count. I took a big risk with my life going into a career that normally ends in poverty and disappointment. After all the years of slog I manage now to have a job that to some people, seems glamorous and relatively well-paid.

I had no education, no old-school-tie, did not follow in parent's footsteps. Never had a leg-up from anyone. Did the lot myself.

Lucky? I don't think so. Anyone who says so is immediately off my Christmas list.

I always prefer to describe myself, regarding where I've got to in life (nowhere/nothing grand BTW!) as "fortunate" rather than lucky as luck implies an element of chance and everything I've ever achieved and everything I've enjoyed since I was 16yr old has been down to my own hard work.

I AM incredibly lucky to have been born in a first world nation with such wonderful benefits as a free education, the welfare state and the NHS but those people pointing out my "luck" are seldom (if ever) doing so in a global context.

Oprah Winfrey said "luck is a matter of preparation meeting opportunity", which I rather like, although it neither fits my definition of luck nor those who perceive me to be "lucky"!

I think your friend is right, but why is she making this point?

posie - her job takes her to some of the worlds darkest places where human rights and personal safety are in short supply, let alone ammenities.
I think when she comes home she finds us ( as in we in the west, not just my family ) taking these precious things for granted.

I think she just wants to open my children's eyes a bit.

I think there's a big difference between impressing on children the importance of being grateful for what they have and thinking that life outcomes are purely down to luck.

Life outcomes tend to be a mixture of where you started off (accident of birth- luck), natural talent (like being born intelligent or not which is largely genetic- again, luck), degree of hard work/ self-investment, and (equally importantly) good judgement when appraising opportunities as they present themselves.

"Luck" is highly subjective. Appreciating what you have or 'counting your blessings' is very important & applies to anyone. That's the lesson to teach children, I would say. Whether you get a head start in life by having certain advantages or whether you start at the bottom with very little, if you don't appreciate what you've got, or make the most of any opportunities, you'll regret it either way.

Where you were born and to whom you have no choice over, your health, intelligence, mental health etc - and that of course can affect everything.

I think to have a successful life, however you quantify it, comes down to making 'good choices', where you can make choices.

Good choices about your friends
Good choices about your life partner
Good choices about self respect, how you expect to be treated.
Good choices about where to work, with whom, how hard.
Good choices about alcohol, drugs, food etc etc
Good choices about your children.

I'm trying to teach my children the skill of making good emotional, self respecting choices.

To those of you that think your success is purely down to hard work - what about the fact that you live in a country where we have free access to education? Where women have almost as much opportunity as men. What about your health, and that of those around you? If you have had the misfortune to have serious health concerns, or have to care for a relative from a young age because of their health problems, you simply aren't going to be able to achieve what others can if they don't have to think about these things. What about the fact that so many children are brought up bady, for whatever reason, and that is often going to have an impact on what can be achieved later in life? How about the people that have been brought into the world with disabilities, or learning difficulties?

I don't want to dismiss those people that have worked hard to achieve, because I'm sure they have sacrificed things, and have often overcome harsh circumstances. But to think that there has been no element whatsoever of good fortune, just dismisses the plight of those that wold love to be able to work hard and achieve, but simply can't.

Surely it's best for children to be taught to be grateful for what they have, because undoubtably the majority of children in this country have far more than the majority of children across the world, but that hard work can help them achieve so much more.

I agree to an extent, hard work is involved.

But - many people in this country will work bloody hard all their lives.......and still not have the luck of the draw that says they get that promotion, won't have unexpected shit thrown at them in life (the sort of shit you can't avoid no matter what you do) that keeps them as the working poor. Hard work doesn't always mean a comfortable life, so there is an element of luck involved in the hard work paying off

I am lucky in so far as I was born in this country, had a free education etc but beyond that it has been sheer hard work. I have had countless obstacles in my way and have kept going. Infact beyond the place of my birth very little in my life has been down to luck.

LeQueen - exH and I took the gamble..............like 1000's of other start up business every year in this country - we lost the gamble,

I was pushed as a child - towards a career in what I was visibly talented at - Music - I could have made a decent income teaching privately, playing for weddings, doing concerts, and additional income as a large church organist.

They pushed too hard, I chose something completely different to do at university (and then didn't go ). Indeed I nearly quit several years before that.

I'm now looking towards a career in family support work., it'll never make me much money (even if I rise to the top of the scale I'mm be lucky to top 20k a year). But it's what I aspire to do, and it's what will make me happy.

And I'm a strong believer in the fact that you can earn good money and still be miserable, I'd rather have job satisfaction and a lower salary.

I probably could do much better, did well at school, could probably have gone on and done any number of things after leaving school - some of them earning me seriously good money. I chose to follow my dream, stopped for a while in my 20's (bad mistake), and now in my 30's I'm heading towards my dream again

I totally get the gamble thing LeQ, I do the 16hours most days of the week but would not take the gamble of running my own business, so we are destined to be comfortable but never rich.

Tocatta you can earn good money and be happy as well. We are content, have a good middle income but I think a little more money would allow us to do more things that make us happy.

Both my husband and I come from dysfunctyional and deprived backgrounds, we escaped because of hard work.

yes of course you can earn good money and be happy - but I know an awful lot of people (especially ones I went to school with where by nature of the school we we at had life's opportunities practically on a plate in front of us) who earn/used to earn good money but they were in it because it was a "good career" - not because it was something they wanted to do.

I grew up in the NE of England in the 1980's, my exH grew up in rural Zimbabwe - and lets not even start of the functionality of our families - especiall exH's

Now if you'll excuse me I've just had a friend knock on the door to use my taps for filling water balloons for holiday club

I can see if from both sides. You can work hard in life, make sensible choices regarding money, jobs etc... however I think some people are more 'lucky' than others. I really do. My DH says how he is quite unlucky and I am inclined to agree with him (apart from meeting me of course )
It's a running joke that his brother got all the luck- he is SO jammy, literally everything goes his way, and always had done... apart from the fact my hubby definately got the looks

I think the "pain" of being in a career for the money does not compare to the pain of being homeless, going hungry so your child can eat, sitting in the freezing cold because there is no money for heating or the stress of worrying about a knock on the door incase it is a bailiff. I have been through all of that and would rather have a dull job anyday.

Hard work on my behalf means that I have a job I love but I think people are too ready to dismiss the positives of money.

Maybe we see luck in others and hard work in ourselves.

I have managed to drag myself from the gutter twice and see that as hard work. One of my closest friends said of me "You are as lucky you always land on your feet."

Yes well done all you people who have taken gambles and won, and worked long hours etc etc. A great deal of it is down to hard work of course. But Litchick's friend was specifically talking about how lucky we in the West are compared to many of the people she sees in other parts of the world.

Please have the decency to acknowledge your huge good fortune at being born in a wealthy country and therefore having access to education, health care, welfare etc. Because that is one huge piece of good luck.

And that's not to mention the fact that there are people in the UK who have done many or all of the things you have and failed.

I think people have acknowledged that Orm, infact it was my opening statement.

Other people may have failed but that does not mean I have not worked bloody hard when most people would have given up.

there is an element of luck. I'm not dismissing the hard work, but there is also luck involved for anyone successful in earning a good salary. Luck that you haven't become ill, for instance, and unable to work. It is worth appreciating that and realising your good fortune.

Dh has worked very hard, and for most of his early twenties on extremely low wages/ uncertain income to get to a place where we now have a comfortable standard of living. Every day though I appreciate not just how hard he worked but also how lucky we are that he got the breaks he needed and that he still has his health. I worked really hard and got a great start on the career ladder, but then I became ill and had to have a lot of time off and still can't work full time yet. So regardless of how hard you work, luck definitely plays a part too