to be fed up of people using Aspergers as an excuse

[SomeGuy]

Just reading DM (yes, IABU, I know), story about some bloke who got into a facebook tiff and sued for libel:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298010/Facebook-libel-Law-student-dubbed-paedophile-wins-10-000-li bel-damages.html

'Jeremiah Barber posted an indecent image of children on Raymond Bryce's page on the social networking website along with the comment: 'Ray, you like kids and you are gay so I bet you love this picture, Ha ha'.

The image, which hundreds of users could see, showed Mr Bryce superimposed on to a collage of pornographic pictures.

It was 'tagged' with Mr Bryce's name, allowing his 800 friends on the site to see it.

His victim, who is now a law student, pursued the civil claim against his former school friend and was awarded £10,000 at the High Court yesterday for the stress and anxiety the incident caused him.'

'Mr Bryce, 24, who lives with his parents in Stone, Staffordshire, suffers from high functioning Asperger's Syndrome, but has secured a place on a full time degree course studying law at Stafford University.'

So in other words he's intelligent and successful and has lots of friends. So why should we care that he 'suffers' from Aspergers? It doesn't make the libel any worse, or make him more of a victim.

Here's another story, from Friday:

www.thisiskent.co.uk/tunbridgewells/Asperger-sufferer-admits-cash-card-theft-friend/article-2442184- detail/article.html

'Sevenoaks Magistrates' Court heard on Friday how 22-year-old Michael Funnell, of Addison Road, invited a group of friends around to his house for a party on March 6.

He took their coats to hang them up and when Steve Goodwin's back was turned, took his bank card, before withdrawing £120 from a cash point.

He had memorised his friend's PIN when with him a couple of days before.

Brian Ferris, defending, said: "I am told my client has Asperger's syndrome. He can offer no explanation as to why he steals in this way."'

You wouldn't get them saying 'I am told thay my client doesn't have a very good job, because he is not very bright.'

Another story from today:

www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/news/Spared-prison-camera-showers/article-2442265-detail/article.html

' A MINISTRY of Defence manager who set up covert cameras to watch naked men in the showers has been spared jail.

Hensman, who suffers from Asperger's Syndrome, was working as network manager in communications and systems at the MoD police HQ in Wethersfield when he was accused of voyeurism.

Judge Anthony Goldstaub QC told him: "You were originally prosecuted for sexual offences [voyeurism] but because of your psychiatric makeup these charges were dropped.

"In February 2006 you set up some sort of video recording equipment which recorded movements of people coming in and out of the showers, involving some images of naked males' private parts.

"You were doing it because of your psychiatric condition."

Asperger's is an autism disorder characterised by social interaction problems.

Judge Goldstaub said that people have to "accommodate" others with psychiatric disorders and be "tolerant", adding "it's not their fault".'

It seems to be a popular plea for people accused of child pornography offences:

www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/2031606.indecent_images_man_avoids_jail/

'A BARMAN who was caught with more than 900 indecent images of children has been spared jail.

Southwark Crown Court heard because Jonathan Bristow had Asperger's syndrome he could act on impulse and become obsessive about collecting things.'

I do fear the OP was saying the victim was milking his condition to get more compensation. I am sure the distress caused to someone with AS by that libel was terrible though, absolutely terrible.

"So in other words he's intelligent and successful and has lots of friends. So why should we care that he 'suffers' from Aspergers? It doesn't make the libel any worse, or make him more of a victim."

Where does it say he has 'lots of friends'? The only 'friend' in the story is someone who exploited him, took his money, and called him a paedophile! Some 'friend'!

And i think 'friends' on Facebook are hardly the same as real friends, before you say anything. Half of them are probably members of the Dr Who fanclub! (nothing wrong with that at all, by the way!)

I think he would probably be very distressed by the allegations and obsess on them, and he probably finds it hard to fit in at college anyway and this would not help at all. But my DD hasn't got AS and I am by no means that knowledgeable about it so I hope I am not totally wrong.

If the OP is saying BOTH that people milk their condition and that they use it as an excuse, then that is even worse and I think you are right in saying he is prejudiced against people with autism.

Oh good lord! How absurd. Lock 'em up and throw away the key

Can't say I'm surprised when I see who started this thread.

Even if the OP does think he was somehow usiing his condition (rather than showing that the libel was part of a pattern of bullying) how is that using his condition as an 'excuse' - he DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG! And why conflate this case whith cases where the person with autism had committed a crime? They aren't remotely similar.

yes, I think it is just a generalised rant about people with ASD.

sad about all the people agreeing at the beginnning too.

I have a child with ASD. He does things over and over that get him in to trouble.He is always amazed when I am cross with him for eating a bag of sugar again

We do keep trying to teach him the 'rules' though. He may not understand them but he may be able to follow them to an extent.

But I have a 'friend' who spent long time gettin a dx for her DD. But it was the be all and end all. Not a means to an end. She now has dx but does nothing about it. She never has.

Its enough for her that her DD has Aspergers. Now everything she does is ok. Even if that means beating up her sisters, spitting at teachers, disrupting every social occasion they attend.

It upsets me because her DD is very unhappy and has no idea what is expected of her. How can she even try to follow the rules? She is self harming and they are do nothing about it because 'she has aspergers, thats what they do'.

I think its an insult to all the parents who spend their lives trying to help their children. Its so frustrating to watch it happen and those around them blaming their child. Most people refuse to understand she has a disability and just treat her like a horrible child. She is so isolated.

You will have to take it on trust that I know this family well and am not just assuming they are doing nothing for their DD.
I find it confusing that they had the motivation and tenacity to get a dx but not to get help for their DD.

I have just reread the Daily Mail story as well as the horrible OP, and I see not the slightest shred of evidence that Mr Bryce 'milked' his condition or that it played any part in his getting compensation. He is not quoted talking about his condition, only about what happened and how he wanted justice and an apology. Which is scarcely unreasonable behaviour. As it happens, Mr Bryce's compensation is actually only half the amount given to another bloke (who wasn't autistic) for being libelled on Facebook two years ago.

CCF- thanks for being the voice of reason.

thefirstmrsdevere - well I wouldn't criticise them, maybe they just don't know WHAT to do, or that they CAN help, they need support and education.

I have to say, I read the initial part of the OP differently - I thought it was saying that it was irrelevant that the victim had Aspergers as no-one should have to suffer that sort of bullying and defamation of character, regardless of his/her neurological status.

I would agree that the cases where the Aspergers has been brought in as part of the defence are different.

Reading the original DM article, try changing the sentence which mentions Mr. Bryce's Aspergers to

"Mr Bryce, who suffers from Asperger's syndrome congestive heart failure and works part-time as a doorman to fund his studies, said last night: 'Justice has been served."

It's just not relevant, surely.

Well, it was the Daily Mail who mentioned his Aspergers, we don't know that Mr Bryce used it as "an excuse" or anything else. So the OP shouldn't really have used it as an example of someone milking their condition really.

Starting to think the OP is just ignorant and not really worth worrying about tbh!

Got to go and chase DD around for a bit!

Some sad ignorance about Asperger's on this thread.

Today is a lovely day though, so I shan't waste the energy it would take me to answer it.

Just wanted to say to the OP: I really question your motives for starting this thread.

If you want to know who's fault it is, it is yours (and the rest of society)"

So its my/society's fault that people are being secretly filmed getting changed? And, because its our fault, we are supposed to just accept that?

If the person with Aspergers can't take responsibility, the society just has to take the blame instead.

You ask why it has to be anyone's fault - because if its not anybody's fault, then nobody can take responsibility. I dont see why society should.

My elderly Aunt has Aspergers. There have been times where she has done things that needed fixing or avoiding happening/put a stop to. My mother has always stepped in and done this (since her parents died). It is the right thing to do. If my Aunt outlives my mother, then I will step in and fix/avoid these things happening.

Its the right thing to do.

Blaming society is what is wrong with society.

Yes, society shouldn't support the parents in bringing up children with ASD, let them all be superhuman!!

And not all people with ASD are like your elderly aunt who needs occasional intervention..some need 24 hour supervision you know..unsurprisingly not all parents are up to this alone and need support from society.

You are lucky to be able to be so judgy.

This is what his mother, Diana, told the hearing, as part of demonstrating the intent behind the Facebook post (ie deliberate cruelty, not a joke) the seriousness of the libel and how it affected MMr Bryce and the rest of his family, which of course is right at the heart of a civil action for libel.
"When Raymond told me about what had happened I was really upset. He couldn't go into town, because you didn't know who had been looking at Facebook. Raymond has been the butt of people's jokes for years. He was easy to ridicule and bully, being autistic, he's had it all his life. It wouldn't be nice for any family, not knowing how many people have read it and what people are thinking."
The court heard Mr Bryce was awarded the damages to vindicate his reputation.
Mr Justice Tugendhat said: "It is well known that people accused of being paedophiles may be subjected to serious violence, even when there is no basis for the accusation.
"This post was clearly malicious and the defendant has done nothing to express any regret."
Mr Bryce said: "I'm regretful Barber has had to go through this, but he didn't realise what he put me through. Justice has been served."
So Mr Bryce is a decent man who despite doing nothing wrong has been bullied all his life, but somehow this means he is bad?

oh for a life where the austistic people I know (and care for) need "occasional" stepping in on my part.

Sloany, much as i love my brother (and I do, despite our differences) it is not my job to be his 24 hour carer. and I say this not as someone wanting to abdicate all responsibility, but as someone who has tried and tried, for all my life, to help someone who does not want my help.

you have no idea how that feels. nor the knowledge that I cannot help him enough.

he needs far more than "occasional stepping in", and I cannot be there. I have my own life, and am also needed as a 24 hour carer for dd1. there are not enough hours i nthe day to do everything I need to do, let alone everythign my dd needs, or my brother.

if you don't see why society, as a whole, should care for it's more vulnerable members, then I pity you.

what will happen to your eldery aunt if both your mother and you die before she does?

what will happen to my brother when/if I die before him? or my dd1?

at soem point, even if I devote the rest of my life to being a 24/7 carer, the people I care for who are vulnerable and do not understand the way the world works (despite on the surface appearing high functioning) will be alone, and without me as their champion.

without society caring, what will happen to them then?

In the 'filming' case, it seems, from the report, to have been accepted that the filming was not done with any sexual intent, but because of a compulsion to record events, which was part of this particular person's makeup due to his autism. Therefore it was not a sex crime. Therefore the man's autism was highly relevant to working out what TYPE of crime was being committed. Motive is always important in criminal trials. I am highly suspicious of someone linking four cases, in one of which the autistic person was the victim, one where the report is two years old, and one where the crime was committed in 2006 to try and build some kind of case against all those whinging, justice-dodging, lucky but deep down contemptible people with autism!

Okay, lets just give the benefit of the doubt for a minute and say its not the "sufferer's" fault.

If they keep doing these things because they can't help it...who's fault is it?

Because we can't just have people who can't help their behaviour breaking the law and doing wrongs against others out there in society.

People without disorders get jailed or fined. They either stop, or are put out of society.

Okay, I did not say that it is necessarily the parents job - in my original post, I said

"If these people are not stopped (by a carer, I suppose, in a prevention sense) or put out of society, then what? Do we have to be willing to be stolen from, or filmed getting changed, or branded paedophiles, etc, because its "not their fault" (which it may not be), or is it someone's responsibility to stop it happening?

I dont object to it being not their fault, or using it "as an excuse" - it may well excuse them from the behaviour. But who's responsibility are they? Because if they can't be responsible for themselves, someone should. That's all. No, I'm not saying they should be locked away in institutions like the good old days, but to have this grey area of nobody being responsible and people having to have crimes committed against them is not really acceptable either, or is it?"

So - once again - if its not their fault, then someone should be responsible. If this can be the parents or next of kin (as in my elderly aunt's case) then fine, problem solved. If they can't be responsible, then the government should step in. But SOMEONE has to be responsible.

If I had come out straight away and said the government should be responsible, I would have been flamed for implying they should all be locked up. This is not what I think at all.

To say "society" is at fault is so vague and ridiculous, because society can't do anything if the government wont.

If nobody takes responsibility, nothing will change.

Of course I think society should care for its more vulnerable members. Where did I say they should not? Caring for them and accepting being a victim of crime at their hands are two different things. Talk about putting words in my mouth.

I think vulnerable people should be cared for. But allowing crimes to be committed with no consequences due to the condition is not caring for them, nor is it caring for society. Its just not caring at all.