to be fed up of people using Aspergers as an excuse

[SomeGuy]

Just reading DM (yes, IABU, I know), story about some bloke who got into a facebook tiff and sued for libel:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1298010/Facebook-libel-Law-student-dubbed-paedophile-wins-10-000-li bel-damages.html

'Jeremiah Barber posted an indecent image of children on Raymond Bryce's page on the social networking website along with the comment: 'Ray, you like kids and you are gay so I bet you love this picture, Ha ha'.

The image, which hundreds of users could see, showed Mr Bryce superimposed on to a collage of pornographic pictures.

It was 'tagged' with Mr Bryce's name, allowing his 800 friends on the site to see it.

His victim, who is now a law student, pursued the civil claim against his former school friend and was awarded £10,000 at the High Court yesterday for the stress and anxiety the incident caused him.'

'Mr Bryce, 24, who lives with his parents in Stone, Staffordshire, suffers from high functioning Asperger's Syndrome, but has secured a place on a full time degree course studying law at Stafford University.'

So in other words he's intelligent and successful and has lots of friends. So why should we care that he 'suffers' from Aspergers? It doesn't make the libel any worse, or make him more of a victim.

Here's another story, from Friday:

www.thisiskent.co.uk/tunbridgewells/Asperger-sufferer-admits-cash-card-theft-friend/article-2442184- detail/article.html

'Sevenoaks Magistrates' Court heard on Friday how 22-year-old Michael Funnell, of Addison Road, invited a group of friends around to his house for a party on March 6.

He took their coats to hang them up and when Steve Goodwin's back was turned, took his bank card, before withdrawing £120 from a cash point.

He had memorised his friend's PIN when with him a couple of days before.

Brian Ferris, defending, said: "I am told my client has Asperger's syndrome. He can offer no explanation as to why he steals in this way."'

You wouldn't get them saying 'I am told thay my client doesn't have a very good job, because he is not very bright.'

Another story from today:

www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/news/Spared-prison-camera-showers/article-2442265-detail/article.html

' A MINISTRY of Defence manager who set up covert cameras to watch naked men in the showers has been spared jail.

Hensman, who suffers from Asperger's Syndrome, was working as network manager in communications and systems at the MoD police HQ in Wethersfield when he was accused of voyeurism.

Judge Anthony Goldstaub QC told him: "You were originally prosecuted for sexual offences [voyeurism] but because of your psychiatric makeup these charges were dropped.

"In February 2006 you set up some sort of video recording equipment which recorded movements of people coming in and out of the showers, involving some images of naked males' private parts.

"You were doing it because of your psychiatric condition."

Asperger's is an autism disorder characterised by social interaction problems.

Judge Goldstaub said that people have to "accommodate" others with psychiatric disorders and be "tolerant", adding "it's not their fault".'

It seems to be a popular plea for people accused of child pornography offences:

www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/2031606.indecent_images_man_avoids_jail/

'A BARMAN who was caught with more than 900 indecent images of children has been spared jail.

Southwark Crown Court heard because Jonathan Bristow had Asperger's syndrome he could act on impulse and become obsessive about collecting things.'

Most people are saying that there is a huge variation in autism aren't they? So you can't say just because one child/adult understands something that another child/adult sharing the diagnosis will. I can't see how that is narrow minded.

Smallwhitecat, why do some people assume those things?
It seems that most of the people on this thread think that. Some of the parents posting think because their child has difficulty understanding what is appropriate and what is not, that all children with ASD are like their child.

Why on gods earth can some of you not open your eyes and read what people have written? You have taken offence so attacked that poster but you are being just as pious as the person you are slating. You are all saying your worst fear would be to have someone like mammadoo look after your child, but read again what she has written. It sounds like she can be a bit righteous but I read some of the good she has done in her work.

It is sad that you as parents of vulnerable people can be so narrow minded.

Erm I think that people have said that their child has difficulty understanding in full knowledge that others don't. They have posted about difficulties understanding to show that not all people with ASD are the same i.e. that not all people with ASD will understand, just because someone with the diagnosis does.

I think you have misread or misinterpreted what others are saying.

Lady007pink said that with her experience of her DD, the OP was being unreasonable, something that it appears most people agree with on this thread and yet she gets slated!?

And yes, there are varying degrees of ASD, hence the name. So why do you all seem to think that to comment you have to have a child who is severely affected by ASD? And when someone has posted to say their child is able to understand the world and still disagrees with the OP you still put her down?

Autism's the new dyslexia.

The affliction du jour to fret, overfret, amateurly diagnose and fret some more about.

Well I commented about having a severely affected child because of the 'it is possible to teach every child with ASD the difference between right and wrong - there are always ways' type responses.

Because that's absolutely not true.

Blimey I don't think I overfret about a child who will need 24 hour 1:1 care for the rest of his life.

Although I take your point that everyone thinks they're an expert (and it's why if I have to give an explanation to a bunch of gawping passer bys I never use the word autism).

I confess I am new here, and I also tconfess to have recently changed my thinking on this very subject...

Until recently, I would have said, yes, for sure, AS should NOT be an excuse for wrongdoing, as people with AS are generally high functioning, able, often gifted even...

BUT THEN, my DS (who is nearly 4) was suspected of having AS, and I have actually done research and tried to understand his behaviour and issues. He is very high functioning, and amazingly gifted at certain, generally pattern related things (maths, reading, time, dates etc etc) But he gets obsessive about these things too, and other things, and while I KNOW< while I am explaining something to him, that he will understand what I have said, I am also learning that there is SOMETHING in him that cannot hold on to that when the lure of the obsession overcomes him again.

Right now, this means that he compulsively needs to open and close doors, or that he NEEDS to know what time something will happen, or whatever. It has been a steep learning curve for me to realise that it just doesn't matter how many times I explain, and encourage him that he can leave the door alone, or that it really doesn't matter what time tea will be, he is genuinely not being naughty or wilful in ignoring me, he HAS listened to me, but a little while later, his NEED to know / to do is greater than that. All the while he also has to try and manage interacting with people who just don't "get" him iyswim, and also try not to get into MORE trouble at "school"

To extrapolate that kind of behaviour into the kinds of compulsions and obsessions that an adult with ASD means that I can NOW see why AS really does have a bearing on such cases, and is not just an excuse.

I just thought it might be useful to see it from both sides?

@saintly: that's because you know (s)he is autistic.

Self-predicting/diagnosing is much more fun (ie fecking boring to the rest of us) though. It was depression in the 80s, dyslexia in the 90s and the 21st century's buzzword appears to be autism, in all it's handy nebulous glory...

not sure what's nebulous about a three year old who can't talk, can't play and spends many hours staring into space.

Heracles are you drunk?

Well of course it takes professionals, it was rather my whole point; that doesn't stop people claiming it for themselves, banging on about their fear of it in their kid because he/she once had a thing about a thing or he/she went a day without talking etc and so on. I'm not sure I can be any clearer; I think you're just looking for something that isn't there.

Everyone's Jeremy was dyslexic a decade ago because he hadn't mastered Latin irregular verbs when he was four years old; now everyone's Kenneth is displaying signs of being on The Autism Spectrum because he likes watching the same thing on telly and crie if it's turned off. If I genuinely had an autistic child I'd find it kind of offensive, I don;t so I just find it morbidly amusing. OK?

I think you need to be careful when applying what we know about ASD children to adults. Asperger's work was discredited until the 1980s - before then, it was blamed on bad parenting (specifically, "refrigerator mothers"). Children further along the autistic scale were written off as ineducable cabbage-brains. In the 1960s, even children in wheelchairs were considered educationally subnormal, so you can see what a battle life would have been for a child with social difficulties.

Obviously there are exceptions, whose parents swam against the tide & succeeded in giving their ASD children a secure background. On the whole, though, they were written off, shamed and excluded. This must have been incredibly painful & bewildering for a young person, whose condition already made them feel isolated 'different'. As a package, it adds up to the kind of conditions that lead to personality disorders and mental illness.

Most of the adults with ASD today have muddled through admirably, figuring out their own coping strategies and keeping quiet about how they feel. They have been deprived of the exact help they needed, though, so it's hardly surprising so many of them have unpleasant quirks - they've merely been doing what they figured would help them get by, often with a deep sense of shame they've carried since childhood.

I do think the ASD card is overplayed, so YANBU, OP. But I also feel ASD adults do deserve extra compassion.

Jeez!!!!
I don't come here very often, no time but OMG!!

I can see all the arguements here (please don't slate me but there are bits of everything said here that I agree with)

I think it depends on the crime and the person as to whether AS is used as an excuse. Petty crimes, yes, AS can be used as an 'excuse' due to obsessions and compulsions. But murder........I think AS can be used as a contributing factor but it depends on how the murder was commited, ifgwim.

At the end of the day, these reports do not hold the full facts. ASD is high in the news at the moment and it is getting bad press, so reports go with the trend (again, iygwim). While the public seem to enjoy reading bad press about stuff, newspapers will seek out more stories to sell their loo roll papers.
Years ago I worked on a fab project and someone filmed a documentary on the good work that project did, but it was never televised as it was all good news. who wants to watch that?

Nah, they're just boring bastards with too much time and money on their hands to fret about more practical things.

Next week: "Oh yeah! I'm a bit OCD too!"

Grace; I could not agree more!! The services have changed so much over the years and so has understanding of people needing these services.
When I first started out, the long-stay hospitals were just closing which left many people out in the wide world with not a clue what to do, how to act, what to expect etc....their security had gone, routines changed, it must have been pure hell for them!! Many just could not cope and that is where some of the bad press came from.

Hopefully due to the good changes in society our children will have a better chance at life when they reach adulthood.

Not sure if I agree that the op is being reasonable tho

There are 3 with DX in DS1's class. He is probably least affected of the three as he is a very self-sufficient and socially passive child. I fought against the diagnosis, as I do not want this for my son - who the hell would? I think we are lucky that he has "autism" rather than Asperger's as from what I can make out, people with AS care far more about their social isolation. Although that could be wrong, just a general impression I have.

My son doesn't come across as having autism as it is perceived in the popular imagination - there are subtleties to the behaviours, it's not as simple as lining up cars or watching the same DVDs all the time (although of course this can be part of it.)

Anyway, his oddness will never be used as an excuse - but it will almost certainly be a reason for some behaviours.

@maryz: no, I'm not saying that. You're looking for offence where there is none (admittedly a MN speciality, but anyway).

I can't be any clearer than what I've already written so I won't try to explain ny remark for the slower readers any more.