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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to not give a toss about getting on the <boak> property ladder?

243 replies

Headbanger · 16/07/2010 11:46

Oooo, my first AIBU

The Old Man and I were brought up, like most Brits I guess, to believe that renting was the preserve of the flighty and irresponsible and ill-advised, and that the only sensible thing to do was to buy your own home.

You know where this is going (no points for originality here): we are professionals, married 10 years, hoping to start a family, but cursed with being Londoners, and of the generation that began being gently and discreetly screwed into student debt by the Government and then being savagely shafted thereafter.

We have a respectable income, but it is so eaten up by debts and the cost of London living that we are focusing all our efforts on paying the debts off, and there is little left over.

There is no hope of us ever buying our own property: our jobs are public sector and/or the arts, and we would need to save a deposit of around £40k, and get a mortgage of something like 8 times our combined income. We're from unwealthy backgrounds, and there will be no bequests or lump sums appearing on the horizon.

Of course we could leave our hometown, but kindly do not suggest this because I don't see why we bloody should: our families are Londoners for generations, we know its very stones, all our friends are here, etc.

So (get on with it woman): AIBU to ignore all this guff about home-owning being the be-all and end-all, and be quite content renting? Our monthly rent is less than a mortgage payment would be; someone else pays for the plumbing; a nice couple come and mow the lawns; if it all goes bent, or all goes better, we can up sticks in a month.

And I'm talking planning on renting long-term here - ten, fifteen years, with (hopefully) children, and all that that entails. Maybe forever, unless one of us gets that pesky half-million book deal.

Is this irresponsible? Should we eat spaghetti hoops on toast (erm, even more than currently )and go live in Zone 72 or parts of the country we know nothing about, and where our friends are hundreds of miles away, just to say 'Oh yes, we own our own home you know'?

Do any other MN'ers rent from choice? Are you happy with it? AYBU?!

Most importantly, do you think there will be a cultural change, and people will care less about that holy grail of the mortgage, and tenants will (like Germany f'rinstance) get lovely long-term leases, with security and permission to paint over the sodding magnolia paint?

I thank you.

OP posts:
Laquitar · 16/07/2010 13:50

I was feeling like you OP before children but i have changed after i had them.

Maybe i'm too romantic and other posters will laugh at this but when i see my kids playing in the garden i want to be in the same garden they will bring their first boyfriend/girlfriend for bbq, my grandchild etc. I dont care about 'market value' and i 'm not planning to sell, i want this house to be our penmanent family house where every cm2 of it has family memories. (maybe all this has to do with the fact that we moved around alot when i was child?).

I am very when people talk about europe in these threads. I agree about Germany, it is common to rent there. But someone earlier talked about Spain/Greece/Italy where 'people are poorer and cant buy'. My experience is like staranise in Spain. As far as i know in Spain it is common to get a house from your parents when you are 18, also parents pay for studies too. Also my dh's friend -whos Greek- just bought a house for his dd. His dd is 3!!

rubbersoul · 16/07/2010 13:54

"Also my dh's friend -whos Greek- just bought a house for his dd. His dd is 3!!"

Lucky girl!

Laquitar · 16/07/2010 13:58

It is not unusual there rubbersoul. I agree she is lucky girl

maktaitai · 16/07/2010 14:00

Yup, it's going to be a generational shift. And a good thing too, given attitudes like your lovely colleague's Headbanger (how did you not howl with laughter??)

My mother spent a lot of time preparing me for going to see my sister's new house, because she thought I'd be killed with jealousy and it would sour relations between us. It's absolutely beautiful and I love going there, but it cost them SO much, I feel nothing but gratitude that I didn't have to try and live there!

staranise · 16/07/2010 14:04

But in Spain the parents don't buy their kids a home - they just often have property 'in the family' - a legacy of the war, when people had to get rid of a lot of black money. It happened to several of my Spanish friends that they just came across deeds in old drawer somewhere and found that their grandparents/old relatives had bought property without telling anyone!

The housing market is still very dodgy over there and as much as I hate the obsession with property here, the market as a whole is fairer (though I know most people won't agree with me on this!).

I wouldn't rent long-term because of the lack of security and the way that the rental market here is all geared towards the short-term or (in London at least), the corporate market. But I certainly wouldn't think less of anyone who does.

DingALongCow · 16/07/2010 14:10

We lived in Switzerland for three years and most people rent there. We had a lovely flat in an huge area of purpose built flats all owned by one big company. Everything was top quality and things that needed fixing were done very fast. We got a contract through the post once a year to sign and send back and that was our sole contact with the agency most years. The only thing they were fussy about was the end of lease cleaning and it included things like a new showerhead, everything scrubbed to within an inch of its life etc etc.

We moved to a rented property in this country and had a house where were werent allowed to decorate, we had three monthly inspections where the house had to be perfect (and we were threatened by the agency when they werent), werent allowed to use biological washing powder in the washing machine, no candles, they decided to replace the roof when we had a ten week old baby in the middle of Nov to the end of december and then put the house on the market and 'encouraged' us to let them show people around constantly. DH is away a lot and the baby and I were really unwell for much of the time so I didnt stand up for myself as well as I could have (plus they hinted we would be unable to have the temporary extension of the lease we needed to move if we kicked up a fuss). The only consolation we have is that they have an empty house now and are finding it impossible to sell as it has so many problems.

I am so jealous of those who find renting a more pleasant experience and if we could have guaranteed a Swiss experience in this country we would have rented for much longer than we did. Now we have the control to do what we like in our property and are paying the same on the mortgage as we did on rent.

Penthesileia · 16/07/2010 14:10

Laquitar - that was me. I was not suggesting that all people in Spain/Italy/Greece cannot afford to buy (obviously not! As I also said, someone must own the homes which others rent! ).

I was simply making one observation towards a larger point which was that it is not much use to base a discussion on renting in the UK on the renting/home-owning patterns of our Continental neighbours, as there are too many differentials to make the comparison meaningful.

bumpsoon · 16/07/2010 14:13

Can i just point out to those with a wish to 'leave' something to their children , if god forbid you got dementia , a place in a nursing home is £800 a WEEK , that would soon eat into any legacy ,especially if you are a fit and healthy dementia sufferer ,so make sure that you transfer any legacy at least 10 years before you think you may become unwell/die .
I rent and its HA so to me it is my home ,its in a lovely village location and costs us £350 a month ,to buy anything of the equivalent size in this area ,not the village ,but in one of the larger towns would cost us a minimum of £1500 a month . It would be lovely to think i woned my home but as someone else pointed out until the mortgage is paid ,the bank owns your home and can take it back and leave you with nothing if the shit hits the fan . As one friend says nowadays there are the smug and the doomed , but tbh i think im in the smug catergory right now

Laquitar · 16/07/2010 14:17

I agree Penthesileia.
(sorry for writting 'someone' earlier, i couldn't remember your name)

FairyMum · 16/07/2010 14:19

I still wonder who is going to pay for all these people who only rent and probably/possibly don't have a pension once they retire? Surely even from a nursing-home point of view, it is better if you do pay for it with equity from your home than that the state and my childrens generation has to pay for everyone?

Does anyone here have a plan for their old age except tax payers money? Am I missing something?

MorningTownRide · 16/07/2010 14:22

Ach, we have been renting a 2 bed terrace for three years. Landlady has been LOVELY. She didn't put our rent up. We filled the house with our crap and then she decided to sell. Absolutely gutted. House is 'worth' £220K+. Can't afford it. I earn £30K (DH is SAHD) with 14k saving.

Y'know I never wanted to buy. But to have our home wrenched out from under us has completely gutted us. Now we have to find something for similar rent even though every other bugger has been putting rent up so we can't afford another 2 bed terrace!

The plan is to live in a shoe box for x months/ years, DH get a job and save so we can buy. Ideal? Nope. But anything to not have that feeling of despair again

manfrom · 16/07/2010 14:26

you are researching an article for the guardian and icm 10 quid.

cheesycheddar · 16/07/2010 14:29

This is why I prefer to own rather than rent. This house is worth roughly the same as our 2 up 2 down. Our dream is to move to Italy when we retire buy something like this and rent out a couple of rooms in the holiday season.

www.primelocation.com/international-property/details/id/UTAS999000196

bumpsoon · 16/07/2010 14:30

Fairymum ,im going to top myself at the soonest wiff of a 'home' ,or live in a shed at the bottem of the kids garden or buy a tepee and go live in the woods ,global warming having properly kicked in by then . Also people who rent also pay taxes too

MorningTownRide · 16/07/2010 14:34

Fairymum -WTF??? Some people can't afford to pay into a pension.

FairyMum · 16/07/2010 14:35

That is ok then bumpsoon. At least you have a plan for your retirement

Of course people who rent pay taxes,but they are going to pay a lot more taxes once we have a whole generation who don't have a penny to their name.

NicknameTaken · 16/07/2010 14:43

Fairymum, why the hell are you assuming renters "probably" aren't paying into a pension fund? I certainly do.

I'm 36 and have always rented. I've lived, rented and worked/studied in five other countries, and there's no way I would have that mobility if I owned my house.

On the whole, I like the flexibility, the fact that repairs are someone else's problem, and the freedom from negative equity. Aside from not having a deposit, I've never had a work contract longer than 3 years (although I've never been out of work for more than a couple of months), so wouldn't qualify for a mortgage. And I don't know where I'll spend the rest of my life in terms of location. I need to go where the work is.

Another plus is that renting made it easier, quicker and cheaper to leave a bad marriage.

My 2-year old DD is now living in her fourth home, but three of them are within a one-mile radius so she goes to the same nursery/park etc.

I've never felt looked down on for renting, but maybe I didn't notice.

thesecondcoming · 16/07/2010 14:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MorrisZapp · 16/07/2010 14:52

Just a couple of points to make, as a homo myself (homeowner - I nicked that gag from the guy in Status Quo):

These wonderful countries in Europe we hear so much about where 'everybody rents' - somebody must own that property that everybody rents, and presumably they wouldn't own it if it wasn't worth their while ie profitable. So it's just that buy to let is even more common there, unless I've misunderstood something.

Also, I'm a homeowner but I absolutely do not want house prioes to go up. Price rises don't help us at all - they just make it harder for us to make any moves, and saddle us all with bigger mortgages, stamp duty bills etc.

I live in a flat but would love a house with a garden - ain't going to happen.

bumpsoon · 16/07/2010 14:53

I dont think it would be in the least bit amusing if anyone lost their home ,what sort of heartless bitch do you take me for ? It is just i too have come across quite a few seriousley smug 'homeowners' who have looked down on me because i rent (through neccesity) even when they have little or no equity or even negative equity in their houses . They will have earned their right to smugness once they have paid for the bricks and mortar and not before ,by which time i will have won the euro millions

thesecondcoming · 16/07/2010 15:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Headbanger · 16/07/2010 16:05

Firstly, Fairy you ghastly little tick, I like your simultaneously hilarious, ignorant and offensive inference that anyone who rents is obviously too feckless and ne'er-do-well to pay into a pension scheme, and/or unemployable to boot. Do fuck off and iron your Cath Kidston tea-towels,there's a good girl.

Manfrom, I'm dead chuffed to have my first trolling accusation, but trolls don't generally hang about MN for 6 months prior to their first post discussing their fanjo . Nice try though, and I was thrilled to be accused of writing for the Grauniad and not, for eg., the Daily Hate. Now give me back my tenner.

SecondCumming v. sorry that you are in a shit situation and that you are overdue, and I sincerely hope everything smooths out, on both fronts, really really soon.

All others, thanks very much for posting - it was good to have views aired, including those ones that differ from mine - 'tis what I needed!

OP posts:
SNOOCHY · 16/07/2010 16:19

Headbanger - Love your style .. Thank you for this thread, I'm also renting and I sometimes have issues with it but this thread helps to put things into perspective !

bumpsoon · 16/07/2010 16:24

thesecondcoming , i thinks its because ive been in the doomed catergory (renters) for so long and been looked down on by the smug (homeowners) that right at this point at time i do feel a teensy bit of smugness due to the security of my situation. However as i said ,i wouldnt wish repossession on anyone ,even the smuggest of the smuggiest smug gits. Im sorry if things arnt brilliant for you though , i shall track you down when i win the euromillions and sort it out

thesecondcoming · 16/07/2010 16:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.