to not give a toss about getting on the <boak> property ladder?

[Headbanger]

Oooo, my first AIBU

The Old Man and I were brought up, like most Brits I guess, to believe that renting was the preserve of the flighty and irresponsible and ill-advised, and that the only sensible thing to do was to buy your own home.

You know where this is going (no points for originality here): we are professionals, married 10 years, hoping to start a family, but cursed with being Londoners, and of the generation that began being gently and discreetly screwed into student debt by the Government and then being savagely shafted thereafter.

We have a respectable income, but it is so eaten up by debts and the cost of London living that we are focusing all our efforts on paying the debts off, and there is little left over.

There is no hope of us ever buying our own property: our jobs are public sector and/or the arts, and we would need to save a deposit of around £40k, and get a mortgage of something like 8 times our combined income. We're from unwealthy backgrounds, and there will be no bequests or lump sums appearing on the horizon.

Of course we could leave our hometown, but kindly do not suggest this because I don't see why we bloody should: our families are Londoners for generations, we know its very stones, all our friends are here, etc.

So (get on with it woman): AIBU to ignore all this guff about home-owning being the be-all and end-all, and be quite content renting? Our monthly rent is less than a mortgage payment would be; someone else pays for the plumbing; a nice couple come and mow the lawns; if it all goes bent, or all goes better, we can up sticks in a month.

And I'm talking planning on renting long-term here - ten, fifteen years, with (hopefully) children, and all that that entails. Maybe forever, unless one of us gets that pesky half-million book deal.

Is this irresponsible? Should we eat spaghetti hoops on toast (erm, even more than currently )and go live in Zone 72 or parts of the country we know nothing about, and where our friends are hundreds of miles away, just to say 'Oh yes, we own our own home you know'?

Do any other MN'ers rent from choice? Are you happy with it? AYBU?!

Most importantly, do you think there will be a cultural change, and people will care less about that holy grail of the mortgage, and tenants will (like Germany f'rinstance) get lovely long-term leases, with security and permission to paint over the sodding magnolia paint?

I thank you.

I really don't see how it's 'great news' that the interest rate stays low for years if you are a saver or inflation starts to rise.

Great if you're a debtor, though. Will get people like us out of the hole faster, I guess.

But really doesn't encourage saving.

I have posted on this previously.

YADNBU

We are renting by choice. In London. With 3 children. We could afford to buy (having owned previously) but renting is cheaper.

TheWaspFactory I said " as said above" I didn't say you.

Thebestamancanget: perhaps you mean me? I did not actually say "selfish and foolhardy" but "stubborn and foolish". A helluva lot less offensive I'm sure you'll agree

There's obviously nothing remotely selfish about renting.

I was suggesting that the OP get over the perception that renting is somehow looked down upon (which ime it isn't) and not worry about it. But that, however, it is somewhat foolish financially to dig one's heels in about not buying simply because of the above (mis)perception and because you might not be able to live exactly where you want.

If I was concerned about long-term fincancial security I would personally try and buy rather than pour money into someone else's pocket by renting, even if it meant impoverishing myself in the short-term or living somewhere less desirable.

If the OP isn't worried about that, no problem.

There is no ladder.

YANBU. We've been renting 10 years, now in a beautiful and large 3-bed house in SE London that would cost us nearly twice as much to mortgage than to rent.

We do want to buy in our area but are enjoying the flexibility of renting, which means we have more freedom on getting DS into the school of our choice, etc.

As far as pouring money into people's pockets, most people forget they still have a landlord - the bank. Yes, you can build up equity but it takes quite a few years to balance out how much you could have saved renting. And the forecasts are pretty negative for house price growth, so many people will remain in negative equity indefinitely.

Only if you do save through renting...round here (very expensive coastal area still) our rent would be twice a mortgage. And yes, we owe some to the bank but we do own some of it (a fairly hefty amount) and that amount grows every month. Which we wouldn't do if we were renting.

It is wrong to say that one position is automatically better than the other. It depends on your individual priorities, finances, and what you think will happen to the property market over the next five years.

OP, rather than planning on renting for the next ten or fifteen years, why not review the situation every few years just to make sure your decision still makes sense? Your priorities and finances may change over time, as will the housing market.

I think it comes down to each person's personal circumstances really. We bought our house 4 years ago, and it was our first place we bought. But we are planning on living here for a long time. It's only 2 beds and we had our first DC this year but the second bedroom is huge so more than enough room for a second baby for a long time.

Most of our friends who are married do own, but we do have friends that rent and it suits them perfectly. If we were planning on moving around then we would probably rent as well so that we are not tied down, but I am quite a homebody really!

Renting suited my friend who lived in London as when her husband got a job in Australia, they were easily able to leave and now rent over there, and have done for 2 years. This also suited them when they went to live in LA for 6 months or so.

I guess it also comes down to the area as well. the house next door to ours was for sale at the same time as ours and was bought as a buy to let. the rent is more than our mortgage, even though our interest rate went up in 2008.

So I think that it's whatever is best for a person. I certainly don't look down on people who rent, I rented for 6 years before we got our house and it suited me then.

YANBU. I own a house. There are pros and cons but it's not "all that".

Chandellina, negative equity is not a problem if you don't want to sell or move, and you have to pay to live somewhere, so we have always paid to have our own house.

We pay both rent and mortgage at the moment, but I have no tenancy agreement or lease where we are, as we rent from the MoD. The house is our back stop.

scaryteacher - i understand it's not "a problem" but it means you are losing money on an investment that could be earning a return elsewhere. So instead of buying an overpriced house at the top of the market in 2007 and going into negative equity ever since, we have instead earned tens of thousands of pounds on our savings.

but i accept negative equity as a risk, and that it's pretty difficult to time the market perfectly.

I don't think YABU. But the way I look at it is, one day a mortgage will end, rent never will.

YANBU. I would like to own at some point, but I'm in no hurry whatsoever. We are in the same boat as you - londoners with a respectable joint income. I've still got student debt, DH hasn't though. We have 2 children and can't feasibly save the £40k we will need as a deposit. If we hadn't had children in our twenties then maybe we would be in better shape financially, but not enough to get a full deposit together. Also there are lots of costs associated with owning a property that we just couldn't meet, like repairs and decorating.
I have a parent who, through a lifetime of hard work and self denial has amassed very healthy savings. My DH thinks we should ask for the money for a deposit. I won't and it's the source of quite a few arguments between us. He is of the mindset that you should get on the property ladder as soon as possible.

Headbanger I think that's a really refreshing attitude and it needs more people to boycott the lunacy of the inflated house-buying market before sensible readjustment of the whole situation can occur.

I'm in a similar situation, both of us are freelance working in the arts and nobody apart from The National Bank of The Land of Make-Believe would give us a mortgage anyway, so it's pretty easy not to dwell on the idea.

Agree with all the opinions up-post though about needed more secure rights for tenants, and a shift in the balance of power which currently prioritises the ownership of property and rewards people who want to make profit out of property over people who just want somewhere to live and build a home long-term. For example, if rent control was brought back in, it would take the incentive out of buy-to-let and therefore readjust the property market for those who just want a house to make a home in.

But who would buy the houses to then rent out? The issue with renting is that you rely on some people taking the hit to buy.

Essentially it has to remain a balance, as such it will be better for some to rent than it will to buy and vice versa.

House Price Crash website is the way to go - far better than reading the biased newspapers and BBC reports on what is happening in the overpriced housing market.

Chandellina - but that's only if you are in negative equity. We bought our place (our 3rd) in 1992, and we have never been in negative equity, having been homeowners since 1984.

Even if (unlikely) we went into Negative Equity now, we are abroad, the house is rented out, the mortgage only has another 11 years to go, so we would not be losing out.