to not give a toss about getting on the <boak> property ladder?

[Headbanger]

Oooo, my first AIBU

The Old Man and I were brought up, like most Brits I guess, to believe that renting was the preserve of the flighty and irresponsible and ill-advised, and that the only sensible thing to do was to buy your own home.

You know where this is going (no points for originality here): we are professionals, married 10 years, hoping to start a family, but cursed with being Londoners, and of the generation that began being gently and discreetly screwed into student debt by the Government and then being savagely shafted thereafter.

We have a respectable income, but it is so eaten up by debts and the cost of London living that we are focusing all our efforts on paying the debts off, and there is little left over.

There is no hope of us ever buying our own property: our jobs are public sector and/or the arts, and we would need to save a deposit of around £40k, and get a mortgage of something like 8 times our combined income. We're from unwealthy backgrounds, and there will be no bequests or lump sums appearing on the horizon.

Of course we could leave our hometown, but kindly do not suggest this because I don't see why we bloody should: our families are Londoners for generations, we know its very stones, all our friends are here, etc.

So (get on with it woman): AIBU to ignore all this guff about home-owning being the be-all and end-all, and be quite content renting? Our monthly rent is less than a mortgage payment would be; someone else pays for the plumbing; a nice couple come and mow the lawns; if it all goes bent, or all goes better, we can up sticks in a month.

And I'm talking planning on renting long-term here - ten, fifteen years, with (hopefully) children, and all that that entails. Maybe forever, unless one of us gets that pesky half-million book deal.

Is this irresponsible? Should we eat spaghetti hoops on toast (erm, even more than currently )and go live in Zone 72 or parts of the country we know nothing about, and where our friends are hundreds of miles away, just to say 'Oh yes, we own our own home you know'?

Do any other MN'ers rent from choice? Are you happy with it? AYBU?!

Most importantly, do you think there will be a cultural change, and people will care less about that holy grail of the mortgage, and tenants will (like Germany f'rinstance) get lovely long-term leases, with security and permission to paint over the sodding magnolia paint?

I thank you.

If more people start renting that is going to put pressure on rents and they will rise to a point where there is no advantage over renting.

I do think about that stuff Lex - I think a tiny bit of me thinks, that we might rent for the next 15 years but eventually we'll be able to buy, for our twilight years. I'm not ethically opposed to buying, I just wonder whether my current contentment with renting is misguided....

Reasonable, I try not to think about the 'mopney down the drain' argument ! I wouldn't sleep. I console myself with thinking that if we had got one of those asotnishing 110%, 8 x your joint income mortgages, it would be money down the drain to the evil banks, and not to a quite nice chap who pays my plumbing bills...

So renting has no advantage over renting? Well put me.

The second renting should be buying.

How is it money down the drain? So's petrol then. And food. All are essential costs of living (even if you don't run a car, you still pay petrol indirectly via bus pass/Oyster card, etc).

Coalition urgh. Yuk. And thanks.

I know what you mean Xpat but if I save up and buy a sofa or a dining table I'll still have it 10 years later, no? They're little tiny assets, and mine.

I guess it feels like drain-money because food, petrol etc. are consumables so to speak, not lasting objects like a home.

Oh my god Headbanger, how did you control yourself?! (or maybe you didn't) What a cowbag!

Speaking as a landlord, it is very nice to have tennants who want to stay in a property longer-term, and decorate it, because it means they will look after the house a bit better.
I have heard of people deliberatly not raising the rent in order to keep their 'good' tennants (but that is not in london).
I think renting suits some people, not others.
why shouldn't you paint the walls a different colour, as long as when you leave you put things back to how they were?

I don't look down on people who rent nor do I sneer at them. I understand it is incredibly difficult to get on the ladder at the moment.
I can understand wanting to or needing to rent short-term, but not as a long-term plan. Surely you want to aim to build up equity and to
retire in a house you own? I see renting as throwing money out the window. I would personally much rather move further out and own a small house than live centrally in rented. Also, I don't think its taking responsibility for your retirement. My children will grow up paying for a generation of people who
don't own their own property and don't have their own pension.......

I think if you are currently contented just enjoy it then, not many people get to the contented stage!

Life is too short who knows what will happen! Also if you have children I think its really important to be in an area with your friends & places you like going to, it keeps you sane. A happy mummy will make happy children. If buying is not even option for you at the moment I would not even torture yourself worrying about it

Unless you have a huge pension renting long term is going to end in an impoverished old age.

A mortgage lasts 25-30 years. After that you can retire with no housing costs.

How are you going to afford rent when you are too old to work? You will either have to be entirely dependent on state benefits or have all your personal pension uswallowed up with housing costs.

Having a mortgage is more expensive in the short term but is much cheaper in the long run.

And it means you will have an asset to pass on to your children (or pay for decent care).

'I know what you mean Xpat but if I save up and buy a sofa or a dining table I'll still have it 10 years later, no? They're little tiny assets, and mine.'

Probably not. Or it will be worth nothing or close to it.

I have to say that where ever I've rented has felt like home to me- I am the queen of cushions, rugs, candles and art work so really does feel like it's mine and in my style

yes foreverastudent but I am planning on having rich and famous children who can buy mummy and daddy a house no, seriously, it is a concern. My in laws have a house they said would be left to my dh when they die, but I would rather they sell it before then, get somewhere smaller and enjoy their money to be honest.

Yes, Forever, those are the very thoughts I tussle with.

Rubber that is, believe me, one of the less callous and insulting things she has ever said

Right. I have work do to . I shall be back later.

I have been uplifted, encouraged, informed, and flung into despair. Thanks all!

I agree with foreverastudent

We "spend" more on our mortgage per month than we would by renting our flat. HOWEVER, the interest costs us less than renting the flat would (about 30% less) so really we're just investing capital.

We prefer to spend that extra bit per month on our mortgage rather than on unnecessary luxuries. Plus we live in a country where you cannot be in debt more than 35% of your income, so we do not struggle to pay our mortgage.

But, I'd say do whatever you feel comfortable with. You don't have to justify yourself to anyone.

Of course YANBU.

I get the raised eyebrow too.

Renting could be construed as feckless, ill-advised and irresponsible.

Similarly, so could committing yourself to a debt you cannot afford.

I don't get people who say they own their own house yet still have a mortgage. Er, no you don't. The BANK does.

Fairymum, I disagree. And I used to own my own home. It's not a question of "moving further out and owning a small home", if you start off with a a small 2 bed flat and find yourself pg with DC3.

DH and I bought our flat when we were 23 and just married because we thought we were doing the responsible thing. More fool us.

op we are in the same situation, i would like eventually to own a place but realistically not likely in the next few years or even ten yrs (depends if prices went down a lot then maybe??) so happy with renting for now, we do have kids and dh has a decent job but london is not like other places, we just cant afford it to buy somewhere. if we were going to buy i would want a proper house, not a little flat so would rather just rent then atleast you can move at short notice if more kids or any reason that you need to move. and glad we dont own this flat we are in now, we have the plumber out loads must be costing quite a bit for the landlady. if anyone looks down on renting i dont think its worth giving them the time of day to be bothered by it, whats it to them if you are happy with your situation then its fine. my mum is one of those constantly 'why have you spent money should be saving for a deposit' types though

We are probably just going to rent until/if we ever get any inheritence. We are in our early twenties, I just can't imagine a time when our earnings vs average house price would be an acceptable ratio. We have a great landlord though!

I feel very strongly that since so many people are in this position tenants should be given much more rights to encourage more people to do it, instead of mortgages they can't afford.

"I don't get people who say they own their own house yet still have a mortgage. Er, no you don't. The BANK does."

Yes, over years you will hopefully pay off the mortgage so you own your house or at least have a lot of equity in your house. What exactly are you planning to do when you are no longer earning? Let others pay for you, yes?

YANBU but I think both options suck, currently. After shelling out nearly £500 in agency fees a year ago, we now have to move again, because the LL has had a whim to sell the flat, changed her mind but now wants to put it back on the rental market

We have no rights, no choice about when we move, and because of the bollocking housing market situation there are no decent rentals around and rents are going up and up, with salaries staying exactly where they are.

I bloody hate the attitude that 1- homes are an 'investment' to make cash on, 2- tenants are just cash cows and 3- people should be allowed to pass on hundreds of thousands of £, unearned and untaxed, in property value to their children when they die.

I prefer renting for the reasons that it's cheaper (just) than a mortgage, we have freedom to leave at any time, repairs are not our responsibility and if we have another DC then we can claim housing benefit during the lean months. However I feel we need a fair rents office to cap rents, optional 1 or two year tenancy agreements and a cap on the % that rent can be raised each year. More regulation of letting agents with a code of practice and limits on charges regulated by the financial ombudsman.

Me for PM anyone?

That was rather rude of you fairymum. Did you mean to be?

We currently rent, and are fine with it. We would ideally like to own our own house but it just aint gonna happen anytme soon.

The good thing about renting though is when something goes wrong in the house we are not liable for it, e.g we've had a few problems with the boiler and recently had a gas leak, probably cost our landlord alot of money to fix..if we'd have owned the property we probably wouldnt of been able to afford the repairs,saying that I hate the fact we have to ask to do anything like decorating, my landlord it quite easy but I dont want to pay out hundreds on decorating a house that we have no idea how long we will be in. With two children there is also the worry that we could be booted out at anytime, although when owning a house the same could be said I suppose.

One major factor for us was last year my OH lost his job, housing benefit topped up the rent we couldnt afford at the time...what would we have done if we owned our house and couldnt afford the mortgage, I dread to think.

I think I'd be quite happy to rent for the rest of my life if it wasnt for the worry of when we retire, as people have already said, how would we rent after we've stopped working?, we wouldn't have to asset to sell etc etc