Out of date EpiPens??

[Helpppp]

Hi there, I am involved in a number of First Aid courses and out of date EpiPens seem to be the best training tool we have! I am an EpiPen carrier myself but need a few more than just my own!! If you would be able to give us a hand and pass on a few of your out of date ones, it would be amazing.

Bare in mind, these are used to provide life saving training and could benefit you. Gotta be better than the bin!!

Thanks

so where do I send them? will have three out of date from jan 11

drop me an email and ill send you an adress...

[email protected]

Thankyou very much for your support.

I would not recommend using out of date epipens for anything. There is a risk of inadvertently administering adrenaline to someone who doesnt need it if being used for training. (just because it says "out of date" doesnt mean inactive.)
If you contact the company that makes them, they will sort you out some needle free training pens.
A lot safer than using out of date pens with needle attached....
Expired Epipens should be taken to a pharmacy to be disposed of safely.

Yes, I am aware of the risks, it is a programme which we frequently use and are experianced with. Our main target audience is teenagers, this seems to be the only way we manage to fully keep their attention during this potentially life saving part of the course. We have trainer pens but do not seem to have the same effect. Once used we have our own sharps bin for disposal.

we also use the out of date ones to practise,i am glad we have as the clunk and the actual force that occurs gave us both quite a fright when we tried .. we use an orange to practice on.

Another who uses out of date pens on an orange. It does feel very different.

I'd rather have someone who's use an orange and a real pen jab me - DH freaked the first time I made him stab an orange with it and I'm glad it wasn't a real emergency.

Thanks for this thread - DH carries an epipen but I've never had to use it on him and always been quite nervous about the idea - now I will see if he's not thrown out an old one and use it on an orange! Thanks for the idea

This is a really good use for out of date epipens.

Local pharmacies now refuse to take these back and I had real trouble trying to get rid of them a couple of years ago.

In the end, our gp surgery kindly offered to put them in their sharps box.

Lots of current epipens run out at the end of the year, so potentially there is a good supply for your course.

Will contact you for an address to send them to when they run out.

Thankyou very much, It is much appreciated... I have used my EpiPens before as aswell as multiple triggers I have an autoimmune condition which can trigger anaphylaxis... I am so glad that I had used it on an orange before I had to use it for real, helped me keep much more calm.

nottirednow - what do you think helppp could be using them for, if not training? [interested emoticon]

Yeahh, Im curious too!!:L

The trainer pens are rubbish. I use my old epipens to show people who will be looking after DS1 how to use them, and have offered them to school to have a go at.

The power and pressure of the real epipens is quite alarming. You might as well use a biro as the trainer pen TBH.

I'm afraid I agree with nursie - using a prescribed drug for anything other than its intended purpose is dangerous. Especially when working with teenagers in a group environment. I would really, really question the wisdom of posting expired, prescribed drugs with needles attached through the post. I deliver a lot of training for people who have subsequently used epipens, using trainer pens and all have managed to give the drugs according to protocol with no difficulty. At least with a trainer pen you can practise on a person, locating the area of the leg etc. Giving a jab to an orange is unrealistic in a different way.

I am quite surprised that a registered trianing provider with public liabilty insurance would be employing these practices tbh (what people do privately, with their own meds within their own families/cares is a different matter).

While adrenaline is unlikely to do lasting damage if given to someone it is not intended for, it can cause arrhythmias, and necrosis if incorrectly administered. These risks are outweighed if someone is experiencing anaphylactic shock, but unacceptable in training imho.

I'm with Nursie999 and FessaEst. It is potentially unsafe to use expired Epipens, as well as the fact that an Epipen is prescribed to an individual therefore should not be used by any other person.

I think anyone doing a risk assessment for a training course with teenagers would not agree to the use of genuine Epipens.

But you need much more force to inject one into a person than an orange, so they're not really great training aids!

(Quick hijack - how is DD Pixie? Hope she's much better now)

It requires the same force Sidge, it is a spring loaded device, jabing the leg only activates the spring mechinism. If you have a problem, thats fine, don't worry but in the long run the training happens to be Life Saving.

Um thanks for that Helppp, I also do Epipen training! I'm well aware that Epipens save lives, I have given a few.

I find it very different to use an Epipen on a real person than an orange - yes the device is spring loaded but when you have to give it through school uniform, or denim, you need to give it far more force on a person than you would on a piece of soft fruit. The device will still fire with the gentlest of pressure but not necessarily enough to penetrate deep muscle, especially on a large adult.

I agree that there's nothing quite like the real thing and I'm a big fan of using real pens on oranges when out-of-date. However, I've worked with teenagers in group environments and the idea of giving them real, loaded epipens is a bit scary. You'd have to know them quite well and trust them quite a lot.

(I've mostly worked in 'disadvantaged' neighbourhoods and with kids excluded from school, so I may be a little paranoid... I know most teenagers are lovely but it only takes one idiot to creat a major situation)

BTW, Sidge, I take your point about the different amount of force required to use an epipen on an orange / in a leg.

When I had to give an epipen to my son, it took me 3 times because I had not practised enough to remember to take the safety cap off and I bruised his leg really badly because I pressed so hard in my determination to get the adrenaline in him.