Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking - thread 4

[pointythings]

I'm about to head out for the morning routine and given how active our thread has been I felt I had better provide a new one.

Link to the previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5418536-support-group-for-those-affecteed-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-3

Hello everyone. Just beginning my final week of peace. Dreading his return on Monday. I really don't know what to expect. I still feel so tearful,angry, resentful and humiliated.
Zero else to say really . Thinking of you all and hoping you have a nice Sunday

@wouldratgerbeunknown
you sound so so sad…. Just reaching out to send you my best wishes and to say to enjoy every second left of your peace, try not to let thinking about him coming back spoil it and we’re all here for you x

SMART was really good for me. I credit them with seeing that I was totally enabling Ex, destroying myself in the process (stress, anxiety, what I would tolerate for him, what I would deprioritise to put him first) and that it wasn’t helping his recovery at all.

I am so much more resilient now when Ex sends me his ‘I can’t believe you walked away from someone in need’ emails. Yes I did. Because it’s my life too and putting your needs (aka wants) first for nearly two years nearly destroyed me and you are worse than ever. No thanks. I don’t owe you my life because you are an addict.

I think I had a revelation when I realised that all my discounting of myself (eg dropping what I was doing to help in some way), meant that I was enabling the avoiding of responsibility. I had a therapist who is really good at pointing out to be when I am doing too much or doing the thinking I shouldn’t be doing. She worked in addiction services as well. She introduced me to the King Baby concept as well which really helped me.

Oh bless you @wouldratgerbeunknown

@wouldratgerbeunknown

I'm so sorry your peace is coming to an end. Hopefully you have your 'exit plan' done, even if you aren't executing it now. Just knowing you can leave when you choose to can make a difference in your moods and ability to cope. It did for me. Knowing that I could afford to move out if I needed to made the last few months a bit more tolerable. And made it much easier to leave when the time came when I said 'enough is enough!!'

Just take a deep breath and remember that you 'don't need to take no shit' off him. Just be open to that little voice that says 'leave'. You'll know when the time is right.

As for me, DH is still in the psych facility. He calls and says he has no idea why he's there or when he'll be discharged. I've been placating and staying out of it as best I can, but I think the time has come for me to call the facility and find out exactly what's being done to help him. I fully expect to be told 'nothing' either because he's directed them not to talk to me or because they aren't actually doing anything, just holding him until he 'meets criteria to be discharged'.

Sounds pointless he is there then @AcrossthePond55 tho obv gives you breathing space

It sounds like he's been in there for a few days?
Does that mean he hasn't had any alcohol?
And does that mean some kind of detox?
If so is he more reasonable to speak to? Although that maybe makes it worse if you get a glimpse of the person behind the addict?
I really hope he does get some kind of treatment ss long as it doesn't drag you back into a place you don't want to be.
When I think how smoking has been made so socially unacceptable and yet alcohol is absolutely everywhere but seems so much more dangerous it really doesn't stack up

@wouldratgerbeunknown

Days run together, I'm sure you know the feeling. He went to the ER on the 23rd, then was transferred to the facility on the 27th. So he hasn't had any alcohol for 9 days. I'm sure there was some kind of medication during that time for detox but I don't know what or when.

Yes, he's more reasonable to speak to, but he's seemed very forgetful until today. Although he's been known to use 'I don't remember' to cover for his behaviour or deny drinking so I don't know how much of it is that. When we spoke this afternoon he seemed almost his 'old self' and much more grounded, although he still insists he hasn't 'seen anyone' and is just 'there'. That seems odd to me, but you may be right and they're doing a 'real' detox there. This is probably the longest he's gone without drinking in 5 months. I just hope they do some kind of psychiatric workup and also alcohol classes or sessions.

So yes, there are glimpses of the man he used to be. But TBH he's hurt me so much that it doesn't really affect me. In fact, it almost seems as if the more 'normal' he sounds the angrier I get. I haven't figured that one out yet but I will eventually.

No, even if he gets sober it's not going to change things, at least not for a very very very long time. I simply don't trust him and don't know if I ever will again. If I do allow myself to think about 'a future' (which I don't allow myself to do very often) I see it as together, but living apart. And if I am honest I don't think he'd ever agree to that.

I absolutely agree 100% about smoking vs alcohol. But I think more in terms of weed. Overall weed is less damaging and doesn't create the havoc that drinking does. It's legal here and statistics show it's less harmful than alcohol and doesn't contribute to social ills like drinking does. In fact, I'd far rather DH had smoked weed that drank alcohol. But the effects are different and I guess the buzz from weed wasn't as 'good' as the buzz from alcohol. Plus weed is much more expensive!

I wish they'd outlaw alcohol, I really do. But we tried that before with Prohibition and it didn't turn out so good.

He may have had some sort of benzo. Here diazepam ls typically used and it can make you forgetful. There is a danger if someone drinks on top of diazepam or other benzos. It has to be tapered so he may have been on a high dose initially.

Weed doesn’t really blow everything out of the water in the way alcohol can but I think it brings its own issues. I would never knowingly get into a relationship with someone who needed to smoke.

Visited my DH yesterday he's still speaking very slowly and shuffling along but no alcohol now for three weeks ( but would be v difficult to obtain it in there)
Met his fellow addicts who came in to the room we were allocated to introduce themselves. That was surreal as if we were at some kind of work event.
He is actually loving being in there and is actively enjoying all the therapy stuff which I'm very surprised about . But it seems like a complete break from real life and I just think all the same stuff will be waiting for him when he comes out especially work.

So really not sure what to say .
It looks like he will get 10 extra days as a day patient ( i mentioned before about getting there I think I'll just have to take him at least to begin with)
He has been told to attend 90 AA meetings in 90 days .
The thing is because the trust has gone it's really difficult to be encouraging and positive.
We had to write letters to him detailing how his drinking had affected us and he said our letters were very kind!! I said they were not supposed to be kind they were supposed to make you see the impact your addiction is having.
My underlying feeling is that he hasn't really fully understood how serious and difficult this is going to be when he's released from this nurturing bubble.

Can I please join? I have just ended a years long relationship with someone who has become an increasingly problematic drinker. He seems truly baffled despite me making it clear that I would never again tolerate being shouted and sworn at. In public. In a work setting.

I’m aware we are not married like so many of you are here and neither do we live together which makes life easier in many ways. Divorce is tough enough without alcoholism complicating things.

How helpful have people found AlAnon groups for those impacted by others’ drinking?

Guess you won’t m ke @wouldratgerbeunknown till he’s out

But yes sounds like he is enjoying ruling the roost there. Almost being babied

wait till hits the real world

I think you are right to be wary as I don’t think he’s understanding the impact of what he has done

tbh tbh don’t. Ex still says doesn’t know why we are divorcing and he still loves me etc

@tuttifrittileast you can walk away and no assets

be grateful

I did find Al anon good but many who went had parents who drank ,- few children - and only a couple of partners

2 were sober and had been a while. 1 stayed with her alcoholic husband even tho kept saying life wasn’t great

and then me. Think they were surprised I kicked him out and said no more

The problem with Al-Anon is that a lot of the groups stick to the movement's religious roots and are insufficiently receptive of the idea that some relationships need to end, and that the non addict partner is entitled to self care and self protection.

The rehab @wouldratgerbeunknown 's husband is in seems to promote coddling victimhood over hard work and responsibility. Very different from the place where my late husband went (although it didn't work for him, they had far better than average recovery rates).

I prefer the SMART Recovery Family and Friends approach over Al-Anon - they really focus on concentrating on yourself and your own needs.

@wouldratgerbeunknown that all sounds exhausting for you. I don’t think I’d have much patience with all that. I’m at the ‘sort yourself out’ and the ‘it’s not my job to sort you out’ stage here.

I think you are right about being very protected from everything including the consequences whilst in there.

The same stuff will be waiting because no magic fairy has waved their wand and made everything 'bad' disappear and all roads smooth. My DH doesn't seem to realize that either. Although he's not loving being in there, that's for sure.

I so totally get the not being able to be 'encouraging'. DH hung up on me this morning for not being 'supportive' of him being able to go home and simply 'never touch another drop' without some kind of program. And if I dare remind him that this hasn't worked in the past, he hangs up.

But how can we be those things when we know to our marrow that we have been supportive and encouraging to the point of mental and emotional exhaustion and it hasn't made a damned bit of difference. They don't seem to understand that we simply can't allow ourselves one iota of hope and even faking it creates those feelings. They seem to think that we should deny our lived experiences with them and be able to say "Oh OK!!! I totally gazillion percent believe you'll do it!!".

I'm sorry, but his reaction to your 'kind' letters sort of made me chuckle and roll my eyes. It just shows the denial they live in. And the fact that they automatically discount our feelings ("Oh, she doesn't mean that" or "she's just exaggerating") to negate the things we say. In fact, what we write (or say) is not what they read (or hear). Again, it's like a toddler putting hands over eyes and saying "You can't see me". To them, that's reality. To 'our' alcoholic, so is their perception and denial of reality.

My underlying feeling is that he hasn't really fully understood how serious and difficult this is going to be when he's released from this nurturing bubble.

And this is why you need your exit plan. It's a definite case of "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst". You've done enough. More than enough. It's time to think about YOU now.

Thank you so much. I read all
your stories and recognise how much harder so many of you have both in being married to them and the extent of the drinking problems you describe.

This is quite new and I want to keep my resolve.

@tuttifritti

Welcome. This is a good place to learn not to make the same mistake twice.

My experience with Al-Anon was very different than PPs. I'm in the US and perhaps it's 'cultural' but we were definitely encouraged to look out for ourselves first, up to and including separating from a spouse/partner, kicking an alcoholic child out, and going NC with an alcoholic parent. Support was given to those who have chosen to stay or keep the alcoholic in their lives as well as those who chose to leave or go NC. The focus was on supporting whatever decision the member had decided was right for them and that we had a right to change that decision at any time. It was all about not 'judging' each other for the choices we made even if it seemed that they were making a 'wrong' one. I was supported when I decided to 'stick it out' and equally supported when I finally left.

We were never given the idea that we were 'responsible' for the addict. Quite the opposite, it was always stressed that their recovery was their own. We were only responsible for our own 'recovery' and our own happiness.

The religious component was definitely there and I'd say that the majority did have a 'higher power' in the form of a deity, but the words used were 'a higher power, whatever you conceive that to be' and there were members whose higher power were other than a deity.

Al-Anon may not be right for everyone, but it's an option if it works for you. My group was a good mix of spouses/partners, children, parents, and widow(er)s. Unfortunately I'm now some distance away from 'my' group and the dog means I'm not free to find another one. I'm going to check out the SMART programme as it seems to be more 'online' based.

@wouldratgerbeunknown my letter to my husband was described by the team as 'hard hitting' and having reread it several times before finally deleting it 5 or so years ago, it was. I was very polite, but I was so far past the coddling stage it wasn't even funny.

@AcrossthePond55 my late husband was a master of shutting down conversations he was uncomfortable with. Any mention of his drinking and its effects on us and he would accuse me of 'going on about it '. When I finally told him I had as much right to express my feelings as he did and that I refused to be silenced, face was a picture. They do so love to make us shut up and put up.

It’s still hard when you love someone an end of a relationship but esp hard when have kids as means I have to have contact with ex

tho to be fair he has been ok the last few weeks. Yes he’s drunk but he hasn’t bothered me as I said I would just block him again.

but he rang his brother and had long slurred drunk chats

and that’s the best I can hope for. To be civil and not annoy me when drunk

he will die via drinking tho still says he doesn’t drink - it’s almost comical if not sad that it’s gone so wrong

yet when doesn’t drink I see a shadow of his former self and who I fell in love with. Tho I def don’t love now.

@pointythings

My DH's usual phrase is "don't keep bringing up the past" as if the past and his behaviour are to be treated as if they never happened. Or at least never to be spoken of.

I haven't used your phrase (paraphrased) "I have as much right to express my feelings as you do and I refuse to be silenced" but I'm filing it away for future use. Although since my feelings are apparently either 'wrong' or 'not relevant to now' I expect it will have no effect. But if nothing else, it's a good thing to keep in my head.

You know, he was always the king of dragging up the past to suit is own purposes, now that I think about it. But if I did I was accused of 'kitchen sinking'.

@tuttifritti welcome! I found an Alanon online group and they helped me, although I joined the group hoping they'd help me save him. Being told that I couldn't change, control, cure him was huge for me, though it seems so obvious now. But there was a lot of emphasis on detaching emotionally rather than physically and that didn't work for me. I needed him to go.

You know, he was always the king of dragging up the past to suit is own purposes, now that I think about it. But if I did I was accused of 'kitchen sinking'.

Oh, mine was exactly but exactly the same. He'd always bring up the same incident (which he completely misremembered) to prove to me that I was such an awful person. He did that for 20 years.

But I wasn't allowed to discuss stuff that happened 6 weeks ago...

So helpful - thank you for taking the time