Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking - thread 3

[pointythings]

Link to previous thread here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcoholsupport/5177307-continuing-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking?page=40&reply=147449407

Continuing our series of threads for people who have an alcoholic in their lives. This is a safe space to vent, look for advice and support and maybe find some strength.

And we are now stuck with 1000 posts of a thread with a spelling error in the title - I'll chase up HQ to see if they can help.

It’s a very hard mood/ phase @zeroclucksgiven. I’ve said before that I almost prefer it when Ex is in verbal abuse or narcissistic mode because feeling angry and resentful keeps me much more resolved than sorry for him and sad.

if your partner is anything like my Ex though, this will be just one phase of his manipulation and likely the one he knows will work best to try and keep you on the hamster wheel of life with an addict. My ex circled moods and treatment to try and draw me back in (we’re NC now but I get an email a week following the same patter):

1. angry verbal abuse, when that doesn’t get the desired result 2.I’m sorry for being a bad person but you are to blame for all of my woes, when that doesn’t get the desired result 3.Suicidal/ goodbye, when that doesn’t get the desired result 4.I’m really struggling, will you forgive me, I love you, yoh are amazing, happy memories when that doesn’t get the desired result 5.Either back to angry abuse for letting him down and walking away when he needs me OR a positive lying update about how well he is doing with support services or how well someone else is supporting him

It is excruciating, but stay strong. I forgave Ex many times until the last time when I hit my rock bottom. I also became a bit numb to the different tactics because the cycle became so familiar. I could almost play ‘Ex Bingo’ - I’ve not risen to angry, which one is coming next

Sorry, the formatting was fine until I posted!

@zeroclucksgiven well done as you know leaving /not being together is the best thing

thy beg cry - say things will change - they don’t sadly

thru may say they are sorry. But it won’t stop their behaviour

they manipulate so cleverly

I’ve said before about the lies dh has said about me. And how I think people beleive him over me as he is so convincing

they are all the nicest men when not drinking

I wish I didn’t marry. So not going through and paying solely for a divorce

I hope he does move out for you. But I’m not sure he will

100% what @ByeByeDrinker said

You are inspiring me @ByeByeDrinker , thank you!
I hope I can find the ability to adopt the objective way you consider your Ex's behaviour soon and remove my overly emotional way of viewing everything, it's something for me to aim for.
I will only call the police if I absolutely have to - I would rather leave the house temporarily until he calms down again. All I can give by way of explanation for 'protecting him' like that is his career would end at the moment police recorded a DA incident at our house.
I am not in love with him anymore and I will divorce him BUT I will hesitate to completely destroy him, I have my conscience to live with forever and will only call them if it's a 'me or him' situation - I will choose me.
Wishing you (and everyone else here) a peaceful Christmas - that would be the best gift any of us could receive xx

It’s the season to be merry….

My alcoholic sibling had a big one last night and was making a hell of a racket in the garden in the early hours. He has knocked over and destroyed a fence. I’m so, so pissed off. I’m just upset about the fence to be honest. It’s feels like such a violation. Damn these bloody alcoholics, they are all scum.

@zeroclucksgiven detachment takes time and work. Every drunken thing he says and does is a building block for it. Just keep at it, you'll get there.

If he gets violent at home, you should however involve the police. It wouldn't be a matter of you ruining his career; that would be on him.

My only sibling is an alcoholic - almost 4 years to the day when I got a call from my mother ( a massive drinker,) to say he'd been hospitalized. He was bloated, going yellow, menta lly very confused...and rushed into IC. Was given the news he had possibly 6 months to live. Somehow overhauled his life, diet, and has stuck to it. Has scans every 6 months and is almost completely recovered. And totally sober. Just wish my DH could emulate this. I'm so so thankful he is succeeding but very conscious this rarely the case.

So good to hear that about your sibling.
My friend told me today her husband of 10 years was a homeless alcoholic before she met and married him.
I know I'm probably kidding myself but I really want to hear positive stories now

I think I've wasted too much time thinking it can get better - sibling and DH are such dynamically different people I know in my bones DH will never make it sober long term. I'd never trust him to stay on track and spend the rest of my life in a permanent anxious state. After we separate it's up to him and if he does sober up that's fine - I just can't be part of it. I have none of these emotions with my sibling oddly - he doesn't drink anymore and I never worry he will. Weird.

It's about who the individual is. If they're essentially able to cope, have decent self esteem etc. then they stand a chance. My sister's partner was abused by his wife (emotionally but also physically) and then dumped, and it gave him a massive knock that took a long time to recover from and he chose alcohol as a coping mechanism - but once he found himself and realised that history wasn't going to repeat itself with my sister, he put in the hard yards and voila - 15 years sober.

Whereas my late husband for all he was a thoroughly good guy always had low self esteem, was raised by rigidly authoritarian parents and never felt he was good enough. He stood no chance.

Very interesting insight this - my sibling is much more secure mentally than DH. DH had a severe aggressive pushy father who ruled with an iron fist and was never proud of his (not inconsiderable) sporting achievements. Nothing I say to DH will ever change his hero worship of his father which I think has left him an emotional invalid and so completely lacking in confidence. Sibling is very much more capable and self assured and we both have a brilliant relationship with my slightly eccentric father (who was also a heavy drinker but quit years ago). Sadly DH has no close family left and has not been able to maintain relationships/friendships as he wants to hide his drinking.

@Nogoodusername - you are so right and thank you!
I too can deal with 'angry man' much easier, gosh how pitiful that sounds - I prefer being abused by him than when he's Mr nice😩

I recently saw a good mutual friend and while they're trying to remain impartial, they did give me a warning to see/talk to a solicitor as he's stated to them he's determined I won't get HIS house (joint mortgage - he had a mortgage on it with a previous ex before me so we re-mortgaged to buy her out - he was too old to get mortgage then on his own) or HIS NS&I bonds (joint names)...so I have a call with a solicitor this lunchtime.

He's spiralling at the moment; I can see his internal battle not to have that drink and lose his shit with me again, he's forcing this 'I love you, I would never want anything but the best for you' crap out of his mouth - even bought me a 'darling wife' christmas card (WTAF???!!!).... that coiled serpent of anxiety is squirming again; christmas time (when we're both off work) was always an ordeal and it feels like it will be again this year too.

I am staying strong, I keep reminding myself of the things he's said/done (and watching the videos I made of him in full drunken rant too), of his cruelty; I am not taken in by this 'new improved, repentant man'.

I swallow my sympathy for this version of him and daydream of the days ahead where I won't ever have to consider what he might do or say again..

thank you @Penguinsandspaniels xx

Mine lies too....the thing is, for him every incident was 'isolated' and therefore can be downplayed - he's incredulous for instance that him lying on top of me telling me how much he loves me and gropey-snogging me with his alcohol breath FOR OVER TWO HOURS was unacceptable - "I was only adoring you FFS" 🤢

He cannot/will not accept that it was all cumulative for me, building up to this, even though I clearly told him every time that each incident reminds me of the preceding ones and the growing number of them diminished my love for him

You wish you hadn't married...I can honestly say I wish I'd never bloody met him - then I wouldn't have fallen under his Machiavellian spell at all.

I always said (joking in a not joking way) that he was my love and nemesis in equal measure - Professor Moriarty to my Sherlock Holmes.

@zeroclucksgiven I read through my ex’s abusive emails and texts when I need to harden my resolve to the suicide threats or the love bombing or the ‘on the verge of recovery if you would only help me’. It’s obviously a LOT easier for me to do because we are separated and I have my own home. But it helps to remind me that it is ALWAYS a cycle of moods. I also read a lot of articles about how chronic prolonged alcohol abuse changes the brain and personality. This helps me remember that the man I loved is gone, and the relationship I was happy in is gone and will never come back. I saw so many relapses that I would need a year of sobriety before I considered a relationship with an addict in recovery, and Ex will never ever get to that, and I can also not ‘unhear’ the terrible things he said to me nor the terrible things that he has done.

My Ex was my kryptonite. I felt I was addicted to him and would never leave. I’m more fortunate than many in that we have no shared children or property. But I do think everyone in the end reaches their rock bottom of what they are prepared to accept for their life, and also a gradual numbing to the addict and their actions. I used to desperately defend myself and try and explain and try and persuade him out of suicide. No more. He’s the boy who cried wolf, but the addict version. He’s declared blame, anger, suicide, woe, love and recovery so many times that I am more numb to it than I ever thought possible. Thank god.

@Nogoodusername

"My Ex was my kryptonite. I felt I was addicted to him and would never leave. I’m more fortunate than many in that we have no shared children or property. But I do think everyone in the end reaches their rock bottom of what they are prepared to accept for their life, and also a gradual numbing to the addict and their actions. I used to desperately defend myself and try and explain and try and persuade him out of suicide. No more. He’s the boy who cried wolf, but the addict version. He’s declared blame, anger, suicide, woe, love and recovery so many times that I am more numb to it than I ever thought possible. Thank god"

Thank you, it's like you can see inside me - that's how I feel - I need to re-read all of the fantastic posts on this thread from some truly amazing and inspiring women...

I must get stronger, I must put all of this emotion into a corner and get practical...I can wait to have my nervous breakdown until I'm finally free😂

On another note, I am struggling to find a solicitor in my area who doesn't know him/of him; he's a bit of a celebrity to a lot of people here. The guy I spoke to this morning (having read my initial enquiry form stating DA), couldn't wait to tell me he's known STBEXH for years and then actually (yes, really!) asked me how he was and if he knew I wanted to divorce him - WTAF?

NEXT!

Just checking in - DH has been to his first meeting with SMART Recovery and I’ve started counselling to help me straighten out my thoughts and emotions.

He is still tapering with the aim of starting a home detox in the new year. Not holding out a great deal of hope and it’s feels like a frustrating limbo I’m stuck in.

Am keeping up with the thread - thanks to all who share their own experience of knowing an alcoholic and all that means.

@zeroclucksgiven you can’t have joint premium bonds. If they are in his name they are his

saying that / all assets /money will be split

@Penguinsandspaniels
they're not premium bonds they’re NS&I guaranteed growth bonds and they’re in both our names- I’ve just paid 50% of the interest earned to hmrc, so the tax man considers them joint 😜

Thankyou for this.
Hope it helps
My update is he went reluctantly and with me taking him to the alcohol support service. He was very happy as he saw a doctor who has more or less agreed to home detox, this means he's not to go "cold turkey " repeated many many times today . Home detox will not happen until the new year so whoop di whoop a reason given to keep drinking until then.
At least we have a respite from the bottles and bottles of gin. ( as far as I can tell)
He's also taken to AA which I'm really hoping might help although the doctor he saw today said he did not agree with AAs approach so an excuse at the ready there.
At the moment I'm just hoping to get through Christmas/ new year and will assess then .
Good luck to all of you whatever stage of this you're at could never have predicted/ imagined this as my retirement years !!

@wouldratgerbeunknown if it helps then my DH has stuck to the tapering for 3 weeks now with only one slip up. I make him drink in the garden so it Is as unenjoyable as possible!

Wishing you good luck with your dh’s tapering - it is hard to go through for them and us. Our dh will be doing the home detox at the same time so keep posting xx

It's really hard though because I have zero idea what the reducing should look like?
I have decanted double measures of gin into small bottles ( ironically they were bought for health shots!)
He asks for a dose when he starts shaking.
I'm not clear if the shaking is withdrawals or panic?
As far as I can be sure he's now having 1 or two of these a day and 2/4 glasses of wine plus a couple of low alcohol beers.
So still a lot but compared to last week it's all much more bearable.
Plus he actually seems sane but completely not with it at all. Hard to explain but I guess he's drunk but in a lower level way if that makes sense?
However I feel like I'm on duty doling out the medication and of course having read all the posts on here am acutely aware that I'm probably kidding myself and also enabling him.
Sounds like you're further ahead than me.
I'm going to give it to the new year to see if there's any significant change then reassess my position.
he's also been offered 6 counselling sessions so it seems to me that all that can be offered has been.

So he has 2/4 doubles instead of a whole bottle of spirits / plus wine /beer

be careful of the shakes

its hard to detox at home. I tried with my first dh as nhs wouldn’t help

yee I have the joy of 2 alcoholic dh. How Lucky am I !

he had small glass bottles of beers an would have one every hour or two

sadly in his case - it wasn’t enough and he ended up fitting at home. Was so scary and called 999

once at hospital they did detox him but was hell. He was so horrible while getting out of his system

so keep an eye on him esp as used to drinking bottles of spirits

Thankyou as always penguins.
We have done this once before (obviously it was short term and didn't work!)
So I'm just doing the same thing . Ridiculous really as he can easily go out and buy gin. Plus there's wine and beer in the house. I'll keep an eye out for shakes I wonder if a seizure is always preceded by the shaking?
Despite all the speaking to the gp and the alcohol support services I still have no idea what the right thing to do is.
Meanwhile things are so much better than they were last Saturday I'm just glad of the respite

I've been through detox unmedicated (and in patient, managed before) so know how utterly awful and petrified you can feel. I've also detoxed cold turkey and was very unwell. The shakes are always there in the beginning. I have never had a seizure before so have no experience of this. I don't drink anymore and have no wish to - especially dealing with an alcoholic DH but am always terrified when he abruptly stops. I wish there was more info and support for those of us stuck with partners who just won't go through a formal system but do try stopping. It's so bloody hard. I've personally never been able to taper and neither can DH which is dangerous - wishing everyone going through it the best - it's a special type of Hell...

My observation from my sample of one, is that the tapering is achievable, but unless they do something to address the ’why’ they drink, and have more than a support system of one (ie their wife/carer/therapist/cook and cleaners…….me) it will not stick. I know this is not much help, but my advice would be that they (and it is them not you) have to build their plan for sobriety.