How on earth do teachers get to adopt!?!?

[CallmeMrsScavo]

DH and I are going through the adoption process. During all the open days and meetings with our agency before submitting our ROI, the adoption agency mentioned there was online training to do and we would need to do some volunteering (but could be done at weekends). Now we've submitted our ROI and they've emailed through with five dates over the next month we need to take completely off work for the training sessions.
DH and I are both teachers. We can't take leave unless it's during school holidays. We're not legally entitled any leave for the adoption until we get matched with a child. How on earth do adoption agencies expect people to do this!? I understand that they need future parents to put their child first but if my child were sick (for example) our employers would obviously make an allowance - but they obviously won't make an allowance for us to just fuck off to "train" for 25% of the time we're supposed to be working!! It feels as though the adoption agency are intentionally sabotaging our careers so we have more of a focus on a child - but they seem to be forgetting about that money thing that we need to actually feed the child!
How has anyone else managed this? Surely the adoption agency should've mentioned that they're expecting us to basically not do our jobs!

Ok well firstly, as my son would say, take a chill pill.

Of course they arent trying to sabotage your careers or asking you not to do your job. Its 5 days. This is the start of a long and sometimes frustrating journey. Social workers tend to like problem solvers - this is your first problem.

Pick up the phone and talk to them, explain the situation and ask what the alternatives are.
There wil be other teachers, people in other careers who can’t just take 5 days off, there will be other dates or arrangements which may fit better.

Have you spoken to your employer about your plans? You will need time for medicals and obviously for panel. You might find they are sympathetic.
Honestly - just talk to them, you need to develop a working relationship with them.

Our agency did evening appointments for this sort of situation, perhaps try a VA, instead of your LA, who may be more flexible.

Good luck!

I know it's not ideal, but teachers can request unpaid leave too.
Good luck!

As @Ted27 says, calm down, speak to them about what is and isn’t possible. Most adopters have working lives, most with jobs they can’t just drop in and out of, and many people do indeed manage to get through the process - even teachers.

This is a long process, demanding your time and flexibility - you’re in for a long road if you react so strongly to every bump along the way. Talk to the agency, if need be you can change agency (sometimes the local authority are good because they employ teachers and might have a more flexible approach). I hope you get things sorted out and get on the way.

@Ted27

Ok well firstly, as my son would say, take a chill pill.

Of course they arent trying to sabotage your careers or asking you not to do your job. Its 5 days. This is the start of a long and sometimes frustrating journey. Social workers tend to like problem solvers - this is your first problem.

Pick up the phone and talk to them, explain the situation and ask what the alternatives are.
There wil be other teachers, people in other careers who can’t just take 5 days off, there will be other dates or arrangements which may fit better.

Have you spoken to your employer about your plans? You will need time for medicals and obviously for panel. You might find they are sympathetic.
Honestly - just talk to them, you need to develop a working relationship with them.

Yes, we've spoken to our employers (because the agency contacts them on our behalf before considering us in any way to let them know we might be getting a child in the next few years). It really helps our employers avoid giving us promotions. The "alternative" is to wait until February when the next set of sessions are - which will encounter exactly the same issue. It doesn't matter how "sympathetic" our employers are - they cannot just allow us to not turn up to work. Their priority is to students who have exams and an education and can't just be screwed around by teachers who aren't there. We've done our medicals - they were done outside of school time, and we won't be going to panel five times in one month! We have a working relationship with our adoption agency and the relationship is "do exactly what we'll say or you'll never get a child".

@Weekends

I know it's not ideal, but teachers can request unpaid leave too. Good luck!

We can request it but we'll be very politely told to F off hahaha

@Jellycatspyjamas

As *@Ted27* says, calm down, speak to them about what is and isn’t possible. Most adopters have working lives, most with jobs they can’t just drop in and out of, and many people do indeed manage to get through the process - even teachers.

This is a long process, demanding your time and flexibility - you’re in for a long road if you react so strongly to every bump along the way. Talk to the agency, if need be you can change agency (sometimes the local authority are good because they employ teachers and might have a more flexible approach). I hope you get things sorted out and get on the way.

Thanks - they aren't being very flexible and to switch we'd have to declare that we've already submitted an ROI and then we'll have to say we pulled out from them because we weren't committed enough.

"do exactly what we'll say or you'll never get a child".

Yup, that's adoption.

Then they leave you forever, and care no more.

Smile and nod.

Or try a different agency you have a better rapport with.

I did go part time for a couple of months to complete home study. How would you manage fertility treatment? Adoption is hard, and requires lots of flexible thinking.

@percypetulant

"do exactly what we'll say or you'll never get a child".

Yup, that's adoption.

Then they leave you forever, and care no more.

Smile and nod.

Or try a different agency you have a better rapport with.

I did go part time for a couple of months to complete home study. How would you manage fertility treatment? Adoption is hard, and requires lots of flexible thinking.

DH is already part-time but they've happened to book everything on days that he's working. We don't need fertility treatment, we're very much fertile (so fertile that the coil didn't work!!) but we did pregnancy once and after eight months in hospital decided never again. It's just very frustrating that we're more than willing to be flexible but can't just walk out of work. As teachers, our work is very family-friendly compared to most jobs (as in, we get a lot of holiday and can do much of our work from home) but isn't compatible with the process to get there.

Have you spoken to your headteacher? Mine has known since the very beginning and has been fantastic, I have been allowed to leave early for meetings throughout the whole assessment process (which took a year and a half for us) and I was allowed a mixture of paid and unpaid time off for training (including the fostering training we had to do for EP). If you were pregnant you could be off work for various pregnancy related difficulties so employers should be just as understanding about adoption. I agree with others who say you need to calm down a little, I know it can be incredibly frustrating but the whole process is going to test your patience and you've got a long road ahead of you!

Why can’t you just what the alternatives are?

If you have to wait a bit, then you have to wait. Its only as much of a drama as you want to make it.
I’ve rarely seen adopters go through the process without some delay - the delays I had would horrify you.

If they are really that inflexible then look for another agency. I left my first agency shortly before panel, yes it was a lot of wasted time, but it was the best decision.

We didn't have fertility treatment either, but it's a similar thing that appointments are often in work time, it's not "sick leave" (because you're not sick), nor protected pregnancy related leave (because you're not pregnant). It's comparable. And may be a useful comparison to use when discussing things with work.

If your agency wants you to do training on set days, you either talk to work and get the time off, or you negotiate with the agency to train another way, or you look for a more flexible agency (and I get your concern, you would have to be honest that you tried somewhere else, but you had issues), or you give up on the plan of adoption.

Social workers will find many many more ways to be annoying. There will be many arbitrary hoops. Smile and nod, and get jumping.

It sounds like for you, five days of training vs months in hospital is a no brainer in terms of manageable hoops to expand your family. Having a child is difficult, whichever way you do it.

@houseofrabbits

Have you spoken to your headteacher? Mine has known since the very beginning and has been fantastic, I have been allowed to leave early for meetings throughout the whole assessment process (which took a year and a half for us) and I was allowed a mixture of paid and unpaid time off for training (including the fostering training we had to do for EP). If you were pregnant you could be off work for various pregnancy related difficulties so employers should be just as understanding about adoption. I agree with others who say you need to calm down a little, I know it can be incredibly frustrating but the whole process is going to test your patience and you've got a long road ahead of you!

To be honest, I think my OP is a lot more angry than I'm actually feeling. I think I might just be a dramatic person - I'll tone down the swearing and punctuation haha. I'll have another word, but truthfully, I'd feel AWFUL abandoning my classes that much with everything else going on.

Unfortunately the agency will expect to see that you can take time off - just as they will expect you to a child is placed with you. They will be looking at priorities, rightly or wrongly. Maybe you could see if there are any courses planned during any of the school holiday dates?

Ok hold up - I teach secondary too but when I decide to add to my family I will be putting my family first. If I was pregnant my classes would have no choice but to get on with it. Pregnant women have to take time off for appointments. They also sometimes take a lot of leave due to pregnancy related illness.

Adopting is no different. When the child is placed with you, they will come first. If you feel guilty taking time off because of the school/Covid situation then it might be better to just postpone your adoption plans until it settles down.

Schools tend to be flexible. Speaking to your head should at least make it so you can take unpaid leave.

you are allowed to put your own interests first.

You would not be abanding your classes, this is something you could plan for.

@CallmeMrsScavo I do understand the feeling awful about leaving your classes, I really do, but quite frankly you have to get over that for your own good. As much as teachers think they are irreplaceable, we really are not and a few afternoons/days of TA cover or supply is not going to cause your class any harm. I had a parent make a formal complaint about the fact I was 'never in class' as unfortunately I had been off sick along with time off for the adoption assessment process. In reality I had been in class the vast majority of the time, but he was entitled to his opinion. The adoption process is tough, I would recommend making it clear to your headteacher how detailed it is so they are prepared for the time off you will need. And make the comparison with pregnancy!

@PeggyBabcockBoot

Unfortunately the agency will expect to see that you can take time off - just as they will expect you to a child is placed with you. They will be looking at priorities, rightly or wrongly. Maybe you could see if there are any courses planned during any of the school holiday dates?

My priority is doing what's best for my child. Going to work and earning a living is what's best for my child. Walking out of my job for no good reason is not prioritising my child. Adoption agencies seem to think that they're checking priorities when actually they're just checking they have absolute power.

@SavySoy

Ok hold up - I teach secondary too but when I decide to add to my family I will be putting my family first. If I was pregnant my classes would have no choice but to get on with it. Pregnant women have to take time off for appointments. They also sometimes take a lot of leave due to pregnancy related illness.

Adopting is no different. When the child is placed with you, they will come first. If you feel guilty taking time off because of the school/Covid situation then it might be better to just postpone your adoption plans until it settles down.

Schools tend to be flexible. Speaking to your head should at least make it so you can take unpaid leave.

The difference is that pregnant women can leave, if I refuse to work then I'll lose my job. That's the major difference between the two situations. A pregnant woman is legally entitled to sick leave and leave for appointments - I'm legally entitled to nothing at all. It's not a matter of me putting my family first, it's a matter of me choosing to have a job over choosing to attend training at a time that the adoption agency have randomly demanded it be.

If you can only have time off during holidays then you will have to await until the summer holidays. It doesn't sound like you have a good relationship with the agency though. I'd find a different one and simply be honest, say they were not a good fit for you.

they aren’t randomly demanding anything.

There could be 20 potential adopters lined up for that training - they can’t possibly come up with dates that accommodate everyone. If you can’t make it, you can’t make it. No one is asking you to leave your job or refuse to work. Its a problem - there is a solution if you can stop ranting long enough to try and find it. Other teachers manage it.
If they are that inflexible, go elsewhere - and thats your first question to them isnt it

Me and my partner both teachers - First time around we were both hods in secondary schools, so both quite busy and have an inflated sense of self importance. I just spoke to my head teacher and arranged my meetings during my PPA time. Happened to find a time that fitted with my partners time. Now going through it for the second time and my partner is an asshead (intentionally miss spelt) now and is oh soooooo important, but still managing to find time to do the meetings. Less meetings the second time around but most schools understand.

You do have to take the 3 days off for the training and you are entitled to do so - yes agreed it’s hard for classes, but let’s be real we’re not saving lives and to be honest you’ll probs end up isolating soon with a fever anyway so you’ll be off for two weeks and have to set work (or the kids will be.........)

Yes you have to jump through hoops but totally manageable as a teacher, if not slightly more manageable due to COVID as they are now doing zoom meetings which you could arrange for 3:30 when your day ends.

Sounds like the agency are being a bit ridiculous - and I totally get that a head teacher may be a bit funny about people going off for meetings now because there is a horrendous amount of cover (at least there is at mine - people having to isolate every 5 seconds). I would just have another word with your head teacher if they’ve explicitly said you can’t have the time but also if the agency are being a bit stupid with the times I’d find another agency....

It is annoying that we're not entitled PTO for the training. I kinda get it in the sense that we're not "expecting" until we're matched but it does chafe.

My work weren't the most understanding because my wife and I were (at that time) working for the same company and they got really funny about both of us being off together (even though we were in different departments). This is not the most ethical solution but I did take some ahem "sick" days when I needed to... If I cared more about my job we would have scheduled different sessions.

It's a good thing that you care so much about your class. But ultimately you are going to have to find a solution, even if that means waiting for the summer sessions - you might end up adopting a child you would never even have met if you'd done early training.

One day you might find yourself having to problem solve much more difficult childcare issues with your adopted LO, so it might be good practise!

Thanks - they aren't being very flexible and to switch we'd have to declare that we've already submitted an ROI and then we'll have to say we pulled out from them because we weren't committed enough.

Well you could say that, or you could say the agency didn’t have training dates etc that worked with you and your husbands work commitments and explore with them the expectations around training and home study.

Different agencies work differently, voluntary and private agencies don’t get paid until you’re through approval panel so they want people who can complete the process quickly. Some achieve that by being as flexible as possible, others achieve that by being absolutely rigid thereby weeding out people who can’t make their training dates etc.

Adoption agencies seem to think that they're checking priorities when actually they're just checking they have absolute power.

Adoption agencies have very little power - they don’t even make the decision to approve you or not. They do have many competing priorities, a good number of people to get through the process and a need to do that quickly and efficiently.

You say you’re able to be flexible, how would you plan to do the 5 days training? Most happens outside of school holidays because most people are on holiday so you’ll need to negotiate either with the agency or your employer.

I'll have another word, but truthfully, I'd feel AWFUL abandoning my classes that much with everything else going on.

You’re not abandoning your class, you’re taking some time off for something that matters deeply to you.

Gosh op I really feel for you here, what a sad situation.

Are they blaming the way the dates fall/ don't have flexibility because of Covid?

I'd probably ring other agencies to have a chat and see what they do in this situation- if they all do the same it's a case of ride it out unfortunately. However you may find flexibility in some. When you know it may be a conversation of what other agencies could offer and yours try to help- surely it's better for their numbers etc if you stay with them?

If not maybe it's worth moving and being honest with new agencies and maybe keep proof like an email if you stating you can't have time off work and their response.

Good luck.