How on earth do teachers get to adopt!?!?

[CallmeMrsScavo]

DH and I are going through the adoption process. During all the open days and meetings with our agency before submitting our ROI, the adoption agency mentioned there was online training to do and we would need to do some volunteering (but could be done at weekends). Now we've submitted our ROI and they've emailed through with five dates over the next month we need to take completely off work for the training sessions.
DH and I are both teachers. We can't take leave unless it's during school holidays. We're not legally entitled any leave for the adoption until we get matched with a child. How on earth do adoption agencies expect people to do this!? I understand that they need future parents to put their child first but if my child were sick (for example) our employers would obviously make an allowance - but they obviously won't make an allowance for us to just fuck off to "train" for 25% of the time we're supposed to be working!! It feels as though the adoption agency are intentionally sabotaging our careers so we have more of a focus on a child - but they seem to be forgetting about that money thing that we need to actually feed the child!
How has anyone else managed this? Surely the adoption agency should've mentioned that they're expecting us to basically not do our jobs!

Are there other agencies that cover your area?

The only people benefitting are the adoption agency because they get to feel big and powerful and fuel their ego.

You do know you’re not the only person they need to consider here. They’ll have staff to allocate to the training, resources to prep, other people to invite to training, they’ll also have at that early stage to think about potential panel dates, and workers to allocate to the people coming off training and into homestudy.

How much notice do you need? If they could say the next training dates will be in February and March could you give your employer notice that you’ll need time off then but can’t confirm exact days until nearer the time.

It’s telling that you understand your employer is inflexible but not understand that the agency too has competing priorities and finite resources. In your school it’s completely unrealistic to expect flexibility, but the agency are flexing their power and feeding their ego?

OP, the training is when the training is with this agency.

Suck it up, or change agencies.

And as for SWs having power over you- yup. And it can get a lot worse than this. They have all the power. Just wait until you get to some of the more bizarre requests (risk assessments for the goldfish, that sort of thing). You cannot get this het up for every time SWs have the power, if you want to adopt.

Focus on what you can control- your communication with work, or which agency you choose.

You can actually take unpaid parental leave of up to four weeks a year for anything that could benefit your child. Given that the training for adoption will improve your parenting, frame it as a parenting course, and you could do that under the parental leave rules. If you wished. You need to think flexibly.

You're not going to change the system so it's more flexible to suit you.

Doing this training in term time benefits my child no more than doing it in a holiday.

Agencies tend not to do training during the holidays because, oddly enough, people are on holiday - both the facilitators and potential adopters. There needs to be a minimum number of people needed to make the training viable, both from a resource/cost point of view and from a group learning point of view and that’s much harder (nigh on impossible) during school holidays.

the agency are flexing their power and feeding their ego Wait until you meet one of the bad eggs in the profession. Most SWs are good people, but they do have a lot of power, and in the hands of the wrong person, then you'll really know what that phrase means.

This is just a diary issue. It's minor, and will be sortable.

This is not "the agency are flexing their power and feeding their ego". You actually don't want to have that happen to you. It can happen, and tear your life apart. This isn't that.

I think your best bet is to speak to some other agencies. You don't need to actually stop the current process before leaving. Speak to them and explain the situation and ask if they offer flexible training. You might find one that is accommodating and then you'll know if you leave the current agency you'll have somewhere to go to.

Also, ignore the sticklers for rules. Mumsnet is full of people who just love to have a go at others for not complying to rules / bowing to authority.

OP just to add; I’m not trying to scare you but we had SWs breathing down our necks during our dd’s placement because of criminal activity from a family member who we made very clear we were having literally nothing to do with any more. They pressed and pressed and they made us feel like we were lying and it delayed the AO big time and I’m still getting flashback stress just thinking of the pure terror that my daughter would be taken from us.... the above posts are right, social workers can do far worse than this. You need to decide whether it’s worth it. I can assure you that IMO it most definitely is xx

The agency I used did weekend training twice a year on a Saturday for 4 weeks. This made it easier for work. We had to wait about 5 months (as we just missed the first session) but some are more flexible. They hold most training sessions in the evening when kids are in bed too (now I’m an adoptive parent). Not all are as inflexible. The home study was pretty flexible too, it was arranged with our Sw to minimise time off work. When it comes to panel and matching, we had to take quite a few days off work. I can understand your apprehension at this stage taking time off work and if I was in that situation, would definitely phone around.

‘From 5 April 2015 if you are an employee and you have been notified by an adoption agency that a child is going to be or is likely to be placed with you, then you have the right to take time off work to attend adoption appointments.’

www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/KYR_AdoptiveParents.pdf. See page 5

Most employers will allow you to use these 5 days for training under the basis that a child is likely to be placed with you. I work in education and I’ve never heard of anybody not being given this time before.

You do need a bit of perspective here. Missing a few days of lessons is not ‘fucking anyone over’ - whether Head Teacher or NQT, no school collapses because one member of staff is missing for five days, and students don’t fail their exams are this reason either. If your school do ultimately refuse your request, find a different agency.

@Stinkyjellycat

‘From 5 April 2015 if you are an employee and you have been notified by an adoption agency that a child is going to be or is likely to be placed with you, then you have the right to take time off work to attend adoption appointments.’

www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/KYR_AdoptiveParents.pdf. See page 5

Most employers will allow you to use these 5 days for training under the basis that a child is likely to be placed with you. I work in education and I’ve never heard of anybody not being given this time before.

You do need a bit of perspective here. Missing a few days of lessons is not ‘fucking anyone over’ - whether Head Teacher or NQT, no school collapses because one member of staff is missing for five days, and students don’t fail their exams are this reason either. If your school do ultimately refuse your request, find a different agency.

Most people are rejected so it's not considered to be likely that a child will be placed with us. And this only allows for five days off for one parent, only two for the other anyway. It's not just the five days this month - it's not a one-off. They'll also be expecting this for every other stage of the process, it's not feasible.

In the time you’ve spent banging on about how inflexible the training sessions are (which are 100% beneficial to your future child, regardless of when they are), you could have been researching other agencies.

The absolute tizz you’re getting yourself worked into.

What will you do if your child has a meltdown every morning about going to school because of attachment difficulties and you’re not able to get to your classes on time?

What will you do when your child needs therapeutic assessments and you’ve waited eight months for it and you can only have it i a certain day. In term time. During SATs. And what if your child will only get in the car with you and will only go with you?

The adoption process tests us. Adopted children will test you even more.

The rest of your life needs to fit around your child, not the other way round. Right now your child could be in foster care waiting for you to sort your shit out and get on a training session so you can move to Stage 2. Get on with it if you want to do it. Find a way.

Or keep moaning on a message board.

It's not every stage of the process. I'm a sw and I expect to be flexible meeting adopters.
I think it's a conversation you need to have with the agency and your employer though x

Most people aren’t rejected though, where do you get that idea from?

They do need to do the weekly meetings after the five training days but as these are online they could just be during your free periods or if your partner is part time during your day off.

Having been through the process I can tell you it’s manageable as a teacher and potentially easier because your school day will finish at 3:30 or whenever and you can do meetings then. Missing a department meeting that could have been an email won’t hurt anyone. I and many others are saying it’s manageable as teachers who have adopted... if you have a social worker who is being difficult about those meetings, contact their manager and usually it will be sorted.

The training is out of their control usually as it’s not usually your social worker who runs it. It’s not a power play. That’s ridiculous - they can’t just work during school holidays. Some people have jobs where they can’t take time off during school holidays. If they ran the training during school holidays only then others would be complaining like you.

Also *
You do need a bit of perspective here. Missing a few days of lessons is not ‘fucking anyone over’ - whether Head Teacher or NQT, no school collapses because one member of staff is missing for five days, and students don’t fail their exams are this reason either. If your school do ultimately refuse your request, find a different agency.* this! We don’t save lives, we teach! I can understand frontline NHS workers being in a different situation but really school can survive without you for a few days.

@Jellycatspyjamas

Most people aren’t rejected though, where do you get that idea from?

We were told 7/8 couples are rejected.

Think about that for a minute, it would mean assessing people for adoption was a hugely resource wasting exercise.

I know in our authority area the figures are around 80% of applicants who complete the approval process are approved at panel. If over 80% failed I’d think there were serious issues with the process and the people being attracted.

If you’re talking from first enquiry to a child being placed then yes there’s a huge drop off, but that’s because huge numbers make enquiries or come to information evenings and choose not to pursue adoption. By the time someone is attending training and starting home study, the numbers dropping off or being rejected are much lower.

I agree with mahrezy's post. You've been given lots of good advice here that you seem determined to ignore. I understand it is a huge, life changing event that you don't want to mess up but breathe. You have options.

We did all of our training on evenings and weekends as my DH works for a small company that couldn't spare him during covid. Our agency were very supportive and although we had to wait a few extra weeks for someone to be available, they went out of their way to accommodate us.

Look at different agencies. Not a single one of our meetings or training days lasted more than 3 hours.

I would also reflect on @mahrezzy and other posters very valid points re the flexibility you will need in your life as an adoptive parent.
Child with SEMH? Part-time timetable? Slow transition to school? Medical needs? Ongoing appointments? Etc etc.

* They'll also be expecting this for every other stage of the process, it's not feasible.*

They really won’t.

Just change agencies to one that has more flexible training - greater amount of days in the evening, or during school holidays.

@CallmeMrsScavo

We managed to adopt as not just one, but two teachers! Incredible really! The plus points are that our placement coincided with 2 weeks before the Summer holiday meaning we had 8 weeks of both being paid as a family before my wife went back to work - something as teachers we are in the fortunate position to get.

I am very surprised that your schools don't have a policy about appointments for leave for appointments. Ours did and our bosses were generous with time.

Amazingly our pupils still passed their exams and the world kept turning.

I wish you lots of luck and I hope it works out for you. Maybe approach your bosses calmly and discuss what you could do to make this work for you both?!

If you were ill, then school would have to provide cover.
If you were pregnant, school would have to let you go to ante-natal appointments.
if you needed to go on some kind of CPD, the school would cope.

Adoption training & homestudy should really be taken in the same light.

Go to the school with a plan on how to make it work.

I mean, could you get signed off with stress? You sound very het up (understandably) and maybe a couple of weeks off work while you get the training done and have some time to process this may benefit you all in the long run?

Signed off with stress may alarm social workers that you're that stressed at this stage, without a traumatised kid, though.