How on earth do teachers get to adopt!?!?

[CallmeMrsScavo]

DH and I are going through the adoption process. During all the open days and meetings with our agency before submitting our ROI, the adoption agency mentioned there was online training to do and we would need to do some volunteering (but could be done at weekends). Now we've submitted our ROI and they've emailed through with five dates over the next month we need to take completely off work for the training sessions.
DH and I are both teachers. We can't take leave unless it's during school holidays. We're not legally entitled any leave for the adoption until we get matched with a child. How on earth do adoption agencies expect people to do this!? I understand that they need future parents to put their child first but if my child were sick (for example) our employers would obviously make an allowance - but they obviously won't make an allowance for us to just fuck off to "train" for 25% of the time we're supposed to be working!! It feels as though the adoption agency are intentionally sabotaging our careers so we have more of a focus on a child - but they seem to be forgetting about that money thing that we need to actually feed the child!
How has anyone else managed this? Surely the adoption agency should've mentioned that they're expecting us to basically not do our jobs!

It is very difficult but it's also doable. I echo what others have said, maybe the agency isn't the best fit for you.
The thing is they are looking for your to 'prove' that adopting is your absolute priority and that any child placed with you will be too.....and it's hard because it's all hypothetical but you must put your interests first
Have you explained to both the agency and your boss? Proposed a solution, maybe after school - most is being done virtually anyway right now I think? Or during the afternoon if you did a half day and used theoretically your ppa time?
This will be only one of many many hoops you have to jump through (I speak as someone ended up giving up her job, and house to be able to have my eldest dd) keep going until you find a way.
Best of luck.

Thanks for everyone's responses.
To be clear, these are full day trainings. So, they can't be arranged after school or anything like that. They aren't the home visits. The agency has set the dates, they've said we must be together and in our home for the course and must attend the full training. They don't run them in school holidays, they run them once every four months and we must attend if we wish to progress - end of discussion.
The school have said no to time off for both me and DH (different schools). We are not entitled to any leave, it's in term time and they aren't able to get cover (especially at short notice and so often).
Our options are either to pull out of the adoption process or to not turn up to work.

Or to explore working with a different agency. Not all agencies offer 5 days training, some will work around school holidays, it’s not unusual to change adoption agencies during the process and you’re at the very early stages so changing wouldn’t be difficult.

The reality is the adoption process is time consuming and there will be meetings during what would be usual office hours. I know a number of teachers who have adopted so it’s far from insurmountable.

you could see if your employers are more accommodating around other dates which could be planned for

you could look for another agency

I think you could put in another, formal request to your schools alongside a letter detailing the requirements of the adoption process (also formally requesting a discussion) or indeed move agencies.
I changed agencies fairly early on, and whilst it was a setback at the time it was definitely the right thing to do. It wasn't for the same reason, but it was related to the actual process of adopting and it had absolutely no affect on my application/approval in the end. At the time it seemed an insurmountable problem - but found a way through in the end!
Best of luck.

I'm a teacher and managed to do all meetings, all training, all assessments without any fuss or bother whatsoever.
Also had the benefit of utilising shared leave around my holiday periods.
In the nicest way possible. Calm down.

“My priority is doing what's best for my child. Going to work and earning a living is what's best for my child. Walking out of my job for no good reason is not prioritising my child.“

I think you need to consider if all of the above is what’s best for any child, let alone a child with a trauma background.

You’re facing your first hurdle in the adoption process. It won’t be your last if you continue. Excessive - if amusing - use of quotation marks and dramatic message board posts won’t get you any closer.

Solution: find an agency that can be more flexible with training sessions.

It sounds ridiculously frustrating OP.
I'd suggest you change agency if they can't offer any compromise, such inflexibility now is not a good sign.
I think it's very shortsighted on their part, they could be missing out on (ie having children miss out on) some really good people.
It makes sense to prioritise your jobs which would be where the money to support a child comes from. You would not frane it as not being committed, but that it didn't work for you.
I've had lots of fertility treatment and never needed 5 days off in a month (not a teacher though but as an example my last egg collection I was working a few hours later).
I've been lurking round the adoption boards. A good friend has adopted from our LA and they have been pretty flexible. It seems you have an unfortunate combination of inflexible agency and schools which leaves you to be the bendy one! Good luck.

I feel for you OP and I think people are patronising you a bit here telling you calm down when it’s a very real problem. I am in training as a doctor and as such I was only allowed a few days of annual leave per 4 month rotation and my agency demanded a series of 7 training days in the same 2 month period and refused to be flexible on transferring even one of those days to the next training period. Their reason was that it was important that we formed a good support network with the other adopters in our group but turns out none of them wanted to know us anyway and we have barely spoken since the training so meh.... Anyway I ended up having a bit of an argument with my supervisor at the time as he was reluctant to give me the time off. When I pointed out he’d have no problem giving time off to a pregnant woman he said ‘well that’s not the same is it’ and I said ‘well to me it is. You’re refusing to make a minor adjustment to allow me to start a family I’m desperate for’ and he then did a bit of adjustment to allow me to take the time off. The ironic thing was he was a consultant in fertility medicine! I would take a different tact and talk to your employers. Think about it. I know it’s school and that’s hard because your holidays are set but do you think that your employer REALLY wants to lose a perfectly good employee over a few measly days off? It’s a drop in the ocean really. I would try and negotiate with your employer and explain exactly what’s at stake. All adoption agencies will be pretty inflexible and very unsympathetic to your cause. You might move and have exactly the same issue. When push comes to shove though your employer will know that it’s just not worth the battle. Good luck. I do sympathise as I know it’s not as easy as people are making out but just fight for your right and know that it won’t be forever. Just jump through the hoops and you’ll get there xx

Jannt86 - so you spoke to your employer and sorted out the the time off required.
It can be done.
Not being patronising at all - just pointing out that these things need to be sorted and there's no need to be going tonto at this early stage. There will be enough to be up in arms about when the child arrives and one needs to advocate for them and get through each day.

I’m a teacher, I get it. There’s nothing like a day out of teacherland to make you feel like you’re committing treason. But as someone rightly pointed out above
My priority is doing what's best for my child. Going to work and earning a living is what's best for my child

Respectfully, you might find that going to work etc isn’t what’s best and you need to find ways that work for your child. Your ‘hierarchy of priority’ may need to change somewhat.

Adoption agencies seem to think that they're checking priorities when actually they're just checking they have absolute power.

Yip, you are completely powerless, whether you are an adopter, a BP, a foster carer or a child. If you want to proceed, you will have to suck it up and play the game.

I’d be seriously considering a job change OP. I worked in a school where bullying was rife and the workload was seriously high, and even then I managed to get the days off. It’s not fair that your head teachers have said no - and a bit ridiculous! I do recognise cover is high at the moment, but what are you supposed to do?

Both the head teachers and the social workers here need to sort themselves out! Social workers should realise you can’t drop everything and also your head teachers should recognise you have to have some time off if you’re adopting...

I wonder what these head teachers will be like when you have to take the day off because of childcare arrangements falling through or child’s illness...

Or because of what happens to every parent I know - a secret fever which means isolating until a golden test can be obtained!

@BarcelonaFreddie I didn’t speak to them I had to borderline argue with them. Another time I was also told that time off couldn’t be arranged for my own wedding when I asked almost a year in advance as we have on call days and the rota coordinator refused even that far in advance to make sure I wasn’t on call... for my own damned wedding! I had to play hell before I could get it off. People who don’t work for public bodies like education and the NHS have no idea the bulls£&t we have to put up with and the thankless jobs we do for being the backbone of society. Just believe the OP when she says how difficult it is. I love my job and am proud of what I do but it infuriates me sometimes and I feel even lonely when I realise that society has been conditioned to have such contempt for what we do and the conditions we work in

To everyone saying that missing work for these sessions is what's best for my child, and not-so-subtly hinting that I'm an idiot for not realising it. Could you explain why it's so important to my future child that I fuck people over during the adoption process?
As I've already said, giving time off for a sick child or childcare issues is NOT the same. Employers do not view them the same way and we don't have the same rights. We already have a son and there have never been any issues getting time off when it's actually necessary.
Would anyone here who's an employer actually allow a member of staff to have five extra days off in month with almost no notice if they have no right to the time off? Schools have a legal obligation to act in the best interests of students - they legally cannot just approve this stuff. As parents, would you really be ok with students missing this much of their teacher time (on top of the amount missed due to Covid)? And how do taxpayers feel about the fact that their taxes are being spent on supply teachers to cover other government organisations refusal to work within the parameters of other government organisations!?

What's important to your future child is that you're adequately trained to take on their challenges. So training is important.

If you're this emotive about taking a bit of time off for training, it's a worry.

Really not sure what you’re hoping for. Just do the next training days that come along so you have more notice - you can take a break at any time during the approval process - so not sure what the problem is!

You’ve been given lots of advice here but you clearly don’t want to leave your students in the lurch as any teacher who would dare to do so obviously doesn’t care about the progress of the students they teach...!!!

You could also take parental leave as you’re a parent and you can take up to 16 weeks or something unpaid per child.

You clearly don’t want to do them and to be honest they are useless as you will have done the safeguarding training at some point, but frankly you don’t have a choice If you actually want to adopt - and clearly the majority of employers do let you take the time off - as the majority of people who have posted have been allowed the time off for the training days.

Also it’s in the best interests of your future child that you do the stupid training because they won’t come to you if you don’t!

Apologies to those who run the training - it’s not that stupid.........

@CallmeMrsScavo I’m on your side I really am but you’re not fucking anyone over. You’re asking for a small amount of compensation for doing what is necessary to start a family. If they can’t accommodate the soonest training then compromise and agree the one after that. I do think you need to get out of that mindset that you owe your workplace your long term happiness. There will be times that you have to put your child(ren) first. That starts with the adoption equivalent of pregnancy. Your workplace may struggle to understand that but that’s where you have to stand your ground a bit

I think if you found the training completely useless, then you were unfortunate with your training. I found it very useful, in terms of attachment, parenting strategies, preparing for school issues, meeting the birth mum who came to speak, meeting the adoptive mum who came to speak. It wasn't at all like safeguarding training. It was training to be an adoptive parent.

Which, tbh, op needs.

Could you explain why it's so important to my future child that I fuck people over during the adoption process?

How are you fucking people over?

• your employer could give you time in lieu of your non-contact time, or take it offset against the amount of evening and weekend work you end up doing. It’s 5 days - not remotely impossible to pay back given the holiday time you get.
•. Your students need a teacher, not necessarily you
• it’s your schools job to cover absence, whatever that absence is for.
• it’s none of the parents business why you might be absent from class, you don’t owe them anything
• my taxes are paying to keep children in foster care, I’m happy for my taxes to pay whatever it is to get them out of care.

The reality is the adoption process will not nearly fit round your other commitments and nor will an adopted child. You need to have a frank conversation with your employer about how they can support you through the process, other schools and teachers do manage this so it’s not insurmountable. Or change agency to one that’s more flexible, or change schools to one with a more flexible approach. Stamping your feet and shouting about it here won’t change anything.

You’re a teacher, an employee with a life separate from school, you’re not irreplaceable, you’re not fucking anyone over by taking time off for your personal life.

I’m not sure what you want the resolution to be here.

Apologies to those who run the training - it’s not that stupid.........

I’m glad you said that. Safeguarding training tellS people how to identify safeguarding issues, and how to follow safeguarding procedures. It doesn’t tell you how to care for and parent a traumatised child. In my experience (of training professionals - including teachers) professionals have a very rudimentary understanding of attachment, and even less awareness of trauma response and how to support children who have experienced trauma.

The training is also designed to explore prospective adopters value base, their attitudes towards children and their understanding of parenting - it’s an integral part of the assessment process. I know people who haven’t gone further than the training because values identified in training suggested they would struggle to parent an adopted child eg people with very rigid attitudes towards behaviour or unrealistic expectations of adopted children.

Professionals, including teachers, come to the training to get an understanding of what adoption might mean for them and their child, which is very different to working with children or to parenting a birth child. It’s important and needs to be given some priority. Negotiating the time needed to attend is the first step in a long process of putting your unknown child first.

@percypetulant

What's important to your future child is that you're adequately trained to take on their challenges. So training is important.

If you're this emotive about taking a bit of time off for training, it's a worry.

...ok... I've said I understand why the training is important. I don't understand why the training needs to be arranged at such short notice and at such a narrow and inflexible time. How does THAT benefit a child?!

@smeemoo

Really not sure what you’re hoping for. Just do the next training days that come along so you have more notice - you can take a break at any time during the approval process - so not sure what the problem is!

You’ve been given lots of advice here but you clearly don’t want to leave your students in the lurch as any teacher who would dare to do so obviously doesn’t care about the progress of the students they teach...!!!

You could also take parental leave as you’re a parent and you can take up to 16 weeks or something unpaid per child.

You clearly don’t want to do them and to be honest they are useless as you will have done the safeguarding training at some point, but frankly you don’t have a choice If you actually want to adopt - and clearly the majority of employers do let you take the time off - as the majority of people who have posted have been allowed the time off for the training days.

1. I can't do the next training days either. They're no different. They don't give the dates until the last minute so I can't arrange them in advance.
2. You can't take parental leave unless it's for something relating to your child. You can't just decide you're not going to work for sixteen weeks because you have a child - how absurd!
3. I have absolutely no problem with doing the training. I understand its importance. I've done more safeguarding courses that I can count and they are vital to what teachers do every single day (although a little patronising at times). I am not trying to avoid the training.

[quote Jannt86]@CallmeMrsScavo I’m on your side I really am but you’re not fucking anyone over. You’re asking for a small amount of compensation for doing what is necessary to start a family. If they can’t accommodate the soonest training then compromise and agree the one after that. I do think you need to get out of that mindset that you owe your workplace your long term happiness. There will be times that you have to put your child(ren) first. That starts with the adoption equivalent of pregnancy. Your workplace may struggle to understand that but that’s where you have to stand your ground a bit[/quote]
I am MORE than prepared to put my child first when it actually benefits my child. This doesn't. Doing this training in term time benefits my child no more than doing it in a holiday. The only people benefitting are the adoption agency because they get to feel big and powerful and fuel their ego.