do people really think adoption is the hassle-free version of giving birth

[Kewcumber]

I was startled (and amused) to read on a thread "why not just adopt and save the hassle of going through childbirth so she can just get on with her life quicker"

Am I so surrounded by people who understand how hard adoption is that I have lost touch with the fact that some people might think it is the hassle-free option? Of course physically it isn't as tough and I don't have a biologically produced child to compare my experiences to, but if my adoption experience really is the hassle-free version of having children, God help those of you who give birth!!!

sophable - I think many (if not most) adoptive parents are very aware of the primal wound aspect of adoption. It's certainly something I am very conscious of which I really hadn't given much thought to at all beforehand.

I have yet to hear an adoptive parent who thinks that adoption is ideal for any child. But as you say we're really past the point of discussing ideals by the time the adoptive parents enter the frame and the issue becomes the best available option rather than the ideal option.

I don't agree with you that genetics are bollocks though - I do genuinely believe that nature is almost as important as nurture. I beleive that some children are naturally resilient whilst others have to be carefully nurtured to be as resilient as possible. Using nature as an explanation isn't a cop out for a parent not teaching and developing their child but just an observation that (I believe) some of your chracteristics are inherited and not only hair and eye colour and that assessment can affect the way you deal with your child.

kewcumber the key word for me in your sentence is almost.

i think we are in furious agreement btw

yes I we were in agreement - was really just enjoying the sound of my own voice (isn't mumsnet great - you can sound off without anyone interupting you and you can pretend that people are intently listening)

"yes I thought we were in agreement"

i am intently listening.

you're part of the w london posse aren't you? would i be able to come to next meetup do you think? and when is it?

its a kind sentiment adorabelle but the truth is that I becaome a parent for the same selfish reasons as everyone else. I easily get far more out of being a parent than any reasonable person has any right to expect.

And I'm hoping that will continue through the teenage years...

yes I am - I think there is a meet-up for nanou leaving on 7th Spet which I can;t make but is in the throes of being arranged now. There is a meet up at Cov's in Oct I think. Other than that there are also ad hoc small meet-ups lcoally most weeks - go lurk on the main West London meet up thread.

If you're ever off in the week, I don;t work Fridays and am generally trlling around for someone to play with!

Kew - I have to admit I am ignorant of the process. It took us about 9 months ttc and I said that if we weren't able to get pg naturally then I would avoid IVF to save the heart break of failed attempts.

No matter what way you end up having children, there is the potential for stress, tears and heartache waiting for "delivery day"

I'm interested Margo - as someone who might have been in the position of considering adoption (I know plenty of people who chose not to do IVF btw) - was your perception of it that it is a relatively easier process than giving birth.

I'm not trying to outrank anyone on the "painful parenting" scale btw because as someone mentioned earlier - you really do forget quite a lot of the pain once you have children! Just curious as I am surrounded by people who know what the process was like and I may be a litle out of tough with most people view of adoption

Kew - It isn't that I think it would be easier than giving birth. For me the reason why I would think that I would have chosen adoption over IVF would be that I don't think I could prolong the feeling of failure that my body was not able to produce children. It's completely hypothetical and who knows how I would have felt if I was forced to make the choice.

Margo - we too would have chosen to pursue adoption over IVF for similar reasons.

Do agree that most adoptive parents are very aware of the primal wound aspect of adoption. It forms a major part of the preparation.

Nature /nurture - Interestingly many adoptive parents do say that they think nature plays a much more important part than they'd imagined pre adoption.

I do think though that the circumstances and context surrounding the relinquishment are a factor in determining how many people view this potentially damaging experience.

Have friends who adopted a seven year old because they never fancied the idea of small babies and toddlers but did want to be parents (very honest of them IMO - as you might imagine they had many comments about how they'd opted out and gone for the easier route! We've certainly had comments from people we haven't known too well about how we got them at an age when they became interesting, and had missed out on the worst of the sleepless night etc most who knew us well were in no doubt that we had not gone for the easy route but again I do think that both routes potentially have enormous challenges and that maybe increasingly people are becoming aware of some of the special challenges of adoption.

Sophable - have you much experience of adoptees, do you specialise? I'm interested in knowing how in what ways the difficulties faced by adoptees are abandonment /self esteem issues and what could be attributable to other issues surrounding adoption IYSWIM.

Ive just read through this whole thread with real interest.

I have twin DS born as a result of IVF but had always had a keen interest in adopting a child.

(We are a mixed race family and had always known that there is a shortage of mixed race adopters compared to the number of dual heritage children needing a home.)

2 years ago we applied and were accepted despite the fact that I had suffered PND after the birth of my sons (we had the full support of our GP). We found the prep course and home study challenging but fascinating and had the full support of our friends and family (many of who were interviewed.) This was actually the hardest part for me - I felt it was very intrusive to ask my closest friends to have to sit down and justify why they thought we should be allowed to adopt - although of course none of them minded doing it.

The SW put us forward to adopt a little girl (approx 18months - 4). This was her suggestion because as our sons are twins and very close she thought a 3rd (adopted) boy might find it more difficult to 'find' their place within the family.

The agency started to send us details of children that we might be matched with and I tried desparately not to get too excited or attached to any of them individually because i knew there was a still a long way to go.

During this time I had still been on a very low dose of anti depressants (about 10% of a standard dose) because i had suffered terrible withdrawal each time i had tried to stop taking them. I again tried to stop them completely as I didnt want it hanging over me when a new child came into the family but sadly went into another severe state of withdrawal which led to me needing to take 2 months off work.

Although we were only a few weeks away from panel and had told us off the record that they were very confident that we would be approved the agency sadly felt that they couldnt carry on with our application - although they were very lovely about us and said that we were an ideal family for a little one.

I understand entirely why they had to do this but it is so sad because of course after the 8 weeks i was fine again (and our little boys were looked after perfectly while I wasnt well.)

Anyway - its a very long complicated story. i am still grieving for the little one who was almost with us. But I just thought our story does help to illustrate how the adoption process is different from pregnancy. If I had been pregnant no-one would have been able to take the baby away from me because I wasnt well for a few weeks.

Sorry rambling now.

Kizziex

kizzie, when my medical came back from my GP she had refused to sign it in effect, saying she needed a second opinion. I was devastated. Everyone thought I was mad, "its just a hitch" they said "whats a few more months" etc. They didn't understand that what I was scared of was them saying "no" as I knew that a no on the medical was very, very difficult to fight. I knew that the reality was my GP was anti because I was overweight and single. She hadn;t made any attempt to hide it. Thankfully the lovely medical advisor took the trouble to ring a GP at the practice (who was going to do the second medical) and told them bluntly that he wasn't interested in their opinion as to my right to be a parent just in whether I was medically fit. Which I was. Second medical went through no problem.

I am surprised about your GP Kew - What an unprofessional way to act.

oh god Margo - you really had to be at the medical to know how absolutley unprofessional she was. I was in tears after the medical (which anyone who knows me would be really shocked about - am a hard cow normally ).

She quizzed me on how I was going to cope going back to work (I subsequently discovered she had children herself - but perhaps she locks them in a cupboard in work); said I was too overweight to adopt; then took my blood pressure and it was up (no surprise there!) so took it (as instructedon the form) twice more but one after the other wihtout even tking the cuff off - took about a minute to take all three readings, they were all the same (what a surprise); then to cap it all... she said she would post it off later, checked if I wanted a copy (I said no it was fine, naive fool) - after I left she added the comment about wanting a second opinion. Bitch.

I had to have a 24 hr blood pressure test (which was absolutely normal) and a second medical. My panel decision was delayed two months.

Can you imagin being told at 7 months pregnant - actually you're really going to be pregnant for 11 months now because your GP isn't convinved you'll be the perfect parent.

and thats the short version

what a witch KC . i hope you have now changed your GP

I considered it Krsitina but sadly they are the only multi GP practice in our area. However I make sure I don't see her - they recently took on a lovely new partner who I try to make a point of seeing.

I was the rather pitying tone in her voice when you said "how are you going to cope when you go back to work?" that really got me.

It isn't that I don't appreciate the risks involved with being overweight or the challenges of being a single parent. I just wished she had felt able to stick to doing a medical. (There really is nothing wrong with me - medically!)

Don't you just love the way that everyone has an opinion on your becoming a parent ( and feels the need to share it with you)?????

it was the biggest shock to me Kristina, that people suddenly felt empowered to comment on my plans! Even worse was the "friend" who knew about my previous fertility treratment. When I went live with the adoption news in my Christmas cards in Dec 05, she didn't reply (I had expected her to because she and I had often talked about our fertility problems and had also discussed my intention to adopt in a very general way). I didn't get a Xmas card from her, nothing - very odd.

A few months after Xmas a mutual friend (who knew I was pissed off about her silence) asked her if she had got my note about the adoption. Yes - she said - but I didn't reply, I didn't know what to say.

How difficult is it to write - very pleased to hear about your forthcoming adoption, hope all goes well?

My announcement to friends only said that IO was pleased to announce that I had been approved to adopt a child under 2 from KAzakhstan and that I expected the adoption to be completed sometime in 2006.

Haven't spoken to her since. The really odd thing is that we were pretty good frineds up to that point. Not really close but higher ranked than an aquaintance IYSWIM.

Sort of the opposite to everyone else who felt they were entitled to an opinion and had a compulsion to share it with me!

I'm gripped by this thread - joined mumsnet to join in. Husband and I are going to go to an information meeting next week to find out more about adoption, and we both feel quite strongly that it is something we want to do.

We have been ttc but only for a few months, and to be honest I (more than him, I think) feel that I don't need to have my own biological child. I think we are quite clearsighted about how hard it is on all fronts (going through the process, and loving and supporting a child that has gone through things we can barely imagine), although you can't really know until you've experienced it. I have a mixed race cousin, though, who my aunt adopted aged 5 (he's now 21) in Portugal where she lives (my family is white British), so I have a bit of a first-hand insight.

We think that we would be happy to adopt an older child (ie over 4) and feel that it is more to do with being the right match than than age/colour etc. Basically, my heart breaks when I see how secure my friends' young children are in the love that they receive and give, with all the privileges of emotional and financial security, that the urge to give that to a child who doesn't have it is stronger than any biological urge to have my own child.

No doubt most of you are by now thinking 'my God, she has no clue what she's letting herself in for', but I just wanted to add my thoughts and hear more of yours. Thanks for such a fascinating thread!

hi jules and welcome to mumsnet