Urgent advice needed - think DH wants to give DS back

[BangPippleGo]

DS (14mo) was placed with us 3 weeks ago. He is waking during the night at 2am and then coming in with us - he slept through the night at his foster carers. He whinges when he is put down if you've been holding him. He's very clingy to me but doesn't really want DH yet. DH is constantly telling him "no" because he tries to climb on things he shouldn't etc because, you know, he's 14mo.

All of which I would say is normal behaviour for a 14mo. DH doesn't think so. Says "we can't give him back because then I would be the cunt who denied you your only chance if being a mum". I feel sick. I don't know what to do.

SW do get some training in attachment theory but it's pretty basic and very focussed on the potential damage done by poor caregiving relationships, understandably. Some SW will attend more specialist training but attachment is a relatively new concept and is pretty complex really. You can't for example assess a child's attachment to someone through observation in day to day activities - usually when professionals talk about attachment they actually mean relationship or bond between child and caregiver.

I do have additional qualifications at post grad and Masters levels and have a specialism in working with trauma. I guess what I mean about theory not necessarily matching reality is that children don't read the books or research and very often no one theory fits what any of us need. I personally would need to be superhuman to therapeutically parent two children who most of the time seem to need exactly opposite things from me. So, I take all of the different bits of theory I know, coupled with what I see in family and friends and I do my best. Sometimes that's a very gentle, parenting style that could be described as therapeutic and sometimes I call on the part of me that sets very clear boundaries and can be very firm. The reality is no one will get it right all the time and, given the plethora of theories around child development, and trauma, I don't think there is a single right way to go.

We have also had superb after adoption support, which is really worth asking for early if you think you are going to need it.

When we were struggling, the sw sat drinking my tea on my sofa and said 'all kids do that. What kind of support do you think you need?'

I didn't know. But some sort of theraplay, or guidance from a place of expertise would have been nice.

In LOs support plan, it says LO had a secure attachment to their foster carer, which their behaviour didn't reflect, but that 'growing up away from their birth families may cause attachment problems.' I didn't think it was simply growing up away from birth families that caused attachment problems.

I refuse to believe LO developed attachment problems overnight when placed with us.

Jelly you clearly know lots about this, but it does appear to be poorly understood, and taught to us parents, by social workers.

I was told my two were securely attached to their foster carer while in the same breath their SW described behaviours that suggested anything but a secure attachment. In any event I think too much focus is placed on the idea that a secure attachment with one carer means there won't be attachment issues down the line. Attachment doesn't "transfer" and the child is still impacted by the loss and in my view needs to process that loss before they can really form attachments anywhere else.

@thomassmuggit I am sorry you did not get the support you needed. I am aware we have been lucky. One of reasons I mention our experiences is to encourage others.

Not to brag.

We had theraplay, it was brilliant and helpful. I think knowing what others have experienced may help people looking for help.

"I refuse to believe LO developed attachment problems overnight when placed with us." I totally agree with you.

@Jellycatspyjamas are you a mental health social worker ?

Because i have to say i have worked in the area of attachments for twenty years and most of you say is entirely wrong.

People who develop insecure attachments relate to the world and others in a very different way - mostly maladaptive ways and most often have personality difficulties.

Trauma can most certainly also occur during child birth and pregnancy .

The last time I looked I think the stars showed that approximately 40-55% of adults were considered to have a secure attachment style, with about 5% assessed as having a disorganised attachment pattern and the remaining population split roughly between avoidant or ambivalent. Admittedly I've not looked for a while because I've had my hands full but I doubt it's changed massively. By your reckoning then best case scenario is that 45% of people relate to the world in a way that is maladaptive to the point of personality disorder. My reading suggests that's the case for disorganised attachment whereby 80% of folk with disorganised attachment styles will have experienced frightening or dangerous caregiving, and so will exhibit significant levels of trauma response. The literature suggests that for organised but insecure attachment styles, disorder exists on a continuum but by no means does insecure attachment equal personality disorder.

There's also reasonable criticism of whether infant attachment styles actually translate into adult relationships at all in a meaningful way.

I never said trauma couldn't occur pre-birth, I did say that there is a school of thought which says that stress, anxiety and depression in pregnancy alters the baby's development in such a way as to predispose them to attachment difficulties. Epigenetics is a fairly new science and, on my view, telling pregnant women that their stress, anxiety or depression is physically harming their babies induces guilt where it doesn't need to be and actually acts to raise anxiety levels further.

I'd provide references but this is a post on social media, not a thesis. There are lots of theories on child development, attachment very much being flavour of the month. In 10 years time itll all look different again no doubt because the reality is we just don't fully know, which is why they are all theories.

I think the image 'the trauma tree' gives a really good visual starting point for us all when thinking about this stuff.
The roots - prebirth, up to the top leaves - old age.
Its easily googled, i have no idea how to add images here sorry.
Its really important to keep thinking about though isnt it, you still get SW who say, oh they just need a few months of love and stability 😯....again saying its all down to the carer, and not the trauma that went before.

Italian, yes, I'm glad some people get help! And I wish we'd been clearer that we wanted theraplay or whatever. Knowing what to ask for is hard.

We got the proverbial healthy blonde haired blue eyed baby, so what do we have to complain about?! was the feeling I got whenever I tried to raise that things are hard.

Early days are hard, hope things are turning a corner for you OP.

On the side note- scientific theories aren't called theories because they're just ideas people have plucked, and could change any minute. I've heard creationists justify their position because evolution is 'just a theory'! Attachment theory is a scientific theory, not a layman use of the word theory!

Of course attachment theory is a scientific, researched based theory - there are many different theories of child development however and no one theory gives us all we need to know. They inform and guide our thinking and understanding based on what is known at the time - as our knowledge grows, theory hopefully develops. Theory is also up for challenge and criticism and there are some credible challenges to attachment theory which are worth bearing in mind.

Just to be clear, I'm not "anti" attachment theory, I just tend to hold theory lightly when faced with the person in front of me. The more knowledge we have to inform our understanding of our children the better

@thomassmuggit theraplay (specifically, not just play therapy) was very helpful for us. I have tried to talk about it and when anyone on here talks about issues I trot out my usual 'we got a lot of help.' We did and our little was relatively trouble free!

But the help he got was such a big help and has made such a difference.

I think I would now say to anyone who asks, ask your local authority for post adoption support, describe the problems and ask what they can offer but also do some research on line about what has worked for others. Then research where this can be found, and then go back to the authority and see if what they can offer is anywhere like what you need.

Be persistent.

We asked for some help in July last year and it arrived in November. For some four months will seem incredibly fast, for some incredibly slow (and actually if I am honest I was asking vaguely for a month or two before I ended up crying down the phone!).

My motto is now, ask, ask and ask again....

I know this thread has taken on a life of its own but thought I would update now that we are two days away from one month in!

Everything is so, so much better. DS is doing as well as can be expected, he is sleeping better (still waking in the night with a wet nappy and won't settle back in his cot after a change - but straight to sleep once he's in with us at least), is eating really well, is walking loads more and is very chatty and happy.

Every day with DH is getting better and better. The sleep is making a big difference to DH mood, and he's so much more patient and calm with DS now and they are really starting to bond. Lots of laughter and cuddles in our home at the moment

That's lovely to hear bang. Sleep really does make a difference. I have had numerous issues with DC's sleep over the years (and several threads here pleading for help and support!) It makes a huge difference to your emotional health when you're able to get a decent bit of sleep.
Enjoy the laughter and cuddles

Blimey I seem to have opened up a huge debate about attachment trauma without meaning to 😰apologies for that - although it's an important topic to talk about around fostering and adoption as it has such a huge impact on our children's lives. Joining the NATP would be hugely beneficial (National Association for Therapeutic Parenting). It will help you down the line if issues crop up. They have a FB page as well. Can help you to understand why children do the things they do and tailor your parenting style accordingly.

I'm so glad things are going better now.
We've had wonderful help from post adoption support - they've been fantastic. I called them when i was starting to struggle and i'm so glad i did it then and not kept going on our own.

Ah that's brilliant OP, glad things are going much better :)

@BangPippleGo how's it going? Just has a brilliant chat with my troubleson non-adopted child. Some days are better than others.

Sleep and a fresh start work wonders.

Thanks all.

Italian it's going really well thanks. DS was all over DH yesterday so DH did his bedtime for the first time (wasn't able to the first week because he just screamed at him, so we decided to leave it until they began bonding better). DS went down exactly the same as he does for me and slept through til 5am, then came in with us us til half 7. So now DH can be responsible for all bedtimes as far as I'm concerned

It's great though as it means I can go back to my hobby which is once a week and starts at DSs bed time and of course means I can sneak out for a night out every once in a while!

Fabulous. You are coming along so well.

Just came across my old thread - can confirm that the first response from @bummymummythefirst had it right all along and turns out leaving my DH was the best course of action

Thank you for the update! Welcome to the single parenting adopter club. I think there's loads of great things about being able to be more consistent, more focused on your children etc as a single parent, especially when the alternative was useless. All the very best to you.

Thank you @Gordongrumpy! We separated a year ago now and are far better at co-parenting than we ever were together. My son gets regular contact with his dad where they are able to enjoy their time together without my ex getting overwhelmed by some of our son's behaviours, and I have co.plete freedom to raise my boy in a calm and nurturing environment without having to tread on eggshells. Win win!

Just read your thread and wanted to say well done - sounds like the best solution all round. I have no experience of adoption, but was a single mother for several years, mostly very happy and I have an incredible bond with my dd. Best of luck with everything

What an arse wipe. One of my (biological) kids didn’t stop coming back n to our bed each night until they were 15yo and over 6’. So what. Now, as an adult they certainly don’t sleep with us . Who cares, that’s what kids do. Get rid of the DH, not the poor child who is only being a child and no doubt one with additional challenges again due to back ground.

@HoppingPavlova

If you RTFT you'll find she did.