Letterbox

[MissFenella]

Is it usual/typical for letters from parents to include 'when you are 18 and we meet again....' type stuff.

Letter from birth mum included a few 'wonderful future together' type references.

Putting aside the heart crushing 'she thinks I am babysitting' element (because that is about me not the girls) how would you couch the tone to your children?

There is something else regarding the til we meet again bit....

I'm presuming your children, if toddlers, also had a goodbye contact with some significant SW thing in the days afterwards...like making pictures, or releasing balloons to say goodbye, because essentially they are told they are saying goodbye forever. Is that a lie? Well of course it is (for some) but it's done because psychology research (and quite frankly common sense) tells us that children of that age cannot cope with until your X age when they are toddlers, regardless of their emotional intelligence (can anyones toddler really get time either?) so this is what they're told so that later, when they are old enough, you can approach this then. The fact that SS don't want to address this being in the letter as a concern, goes against the work they do with them prior to placement!?!?

When they are old enough to 'get it' it's still not right to have that in a letter. The pressure on a teenager is unfair. We are working towards the day they get to make a decision whether to meet BPs or not and words like that suggest the decision is not theirs. And no, we don't need to deal with the 'truth of it' because the decision is theirs, and if it's a yes the decision of when is too, that is the truth! So all you've got is added pressure (and as I've been in a similar situation with my absent father, I know that actually meant contact happened years after turning 18 because it bred resentment of putting me in that position).

I do not and will not for some time read out letters to our, at present, toddlers. However, I regularly talk about their BPs with them, (positively, the realistics when needed, talk about their sadness at their loss and we put feelings to named emotions), I also use their life story books with them, all increasing their 'emotional intelligence' in the process. I know most adopters do this, for anyone to suggest this is not being done as a matter of course is an insult. I use the letters to back up our conversations by drip feeding information. ONLY you as the parent can decide what is and is not appropriate to share based on the individual needs of your child. SS should be deciding what is and is not aporopriate to be in the letter in the first place, or atleast that's what they tell us they are responsible for during our training. Many of our children have had an horrific start and have witnessed or been party to things that may have made them more resilient, but at the same time more fragile. This is a lifetime of work we need to do with our children and for nearly all we can quote 'Rome was not built in a day' or it's a 'marathon not a sprint'.

If you're an adoptive parent who is just not talking about any of it, not dealing with it, or ignoring that your child may be missing BPs or be upset, firstly, I'd be very surprised you made it through training and secondly, I suggest you read through the thread for adult adoptees, who it seems were mainly adopted in the 70's, where information wasn't shared and adoptions were hidden....you'll change your mind.

As for SS, it concerns me that they don't check letters after 2 years and their attitude in their communication to you stinks. We've worked with amazing social workers, are they perfect? No, they're too overworked to be so, but I have no reason to complain. However, maybe recruitment in post adoption services, training, and clearly money needs to be looked at. This 'marathon not a sprint' approach needs to be SS's/the governments too and contact letters are a big part of that.

Wada, you are not intruding . We welcome visitors and hope some of them will stay and become friends .

Yes wada we like people who agree with us

Wandafuca, some of the children who are adopted have not had a traumatic early life and I have to say I assumed that this was the case here because the SW had ok'd the letter.

I think that it would be acceptable for the OP to tell her children that their BM misses them, loves them, and hopes to see them again. If there had been specific early trauma then possibly I would say different but again I had assumed not here. I do not agree that it is emotional blackmail.

I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say - I would say that probably in RL about half the people would agree with me and half wouldn't.

Many people have said they stopped posting on these kinds of threads because of how they were being treated for having differing views, so it isn't just me.

In relation to what has been said to me and to other posters who disagreed with the general consensus - it is a reason but not an excuse that it is because you have had shitty days (as per kewcumber's post) - the rules of engagement on forums is to treat others with respect (and yes I have tried, and have apologised where people thought I was over the line, and no I don't think the same courtesy has been extended to me) and there is no exception to that requirement if you are an adopter or have had a shitty day. Calling a SW a "monkey" - how is that possibly acceptable?

More than this, an awful lost of posters get put off posting on here because of the short shrift they get. It isn't fair. I want to hear their views, and so do others, and instead they end up sending private emails!

I am sorry about getting backs up - I don't usually. I do think the system needs to change.

Missf you asked me not to post (after telling kewcumber she had every right to be dismissive as a grown woman...??) but there have been posts since then and it is only fair to let me reply.

Did you have an initial letterbox agreement? If so and this isn't spelt out in there I'd complain.

Such patronising bollocks. And so fucking mendacious - claiming that their cost cutting 'you're on your own now' bullshit is in your child's best interests.

Adopted I think the same courtesies have not been extended to you because you've come on to an adoption thread presuming that your way of thinking is the right way. When the dozen or so adoptive parents on here have dared to disagree with you because we know our children and we know what is right for them you fail to accept this and keep repeatedly banging on that your opinion is right and we're all wrong.
I'm sorry if adoption has not worked out for you, I don't presume to know your story or why you feel the way we do things (not that you actually know the way we do things) is wrong. Adoption has changed extremely significantly over the last few decades, not least because parents have contact in some form or another from birth families and have to be open with their children about their backgrounds and help them accept that. This is all to the good adopters would say. Gone are the days when a child was adopted and it was either sprung on them on their 18th birthday or worse still they find out after their adoptive parents pass on, that is Not acceptable and no adopter today would presume to say it is.
Likewise adoption a few decades ago was predominantly relinquished children that couldn't be brought up by birth parents because of social stigmas. Adoption today is predominantly children being removed from parents who have either abused or neglected them or their siblings.
I can't think of any situation where it is acceptable for a small child to have adult emotions forced upon them, it is our duty to protect our children, to help them deal with their pasts and to enable them to have whatever is left of their childhood and be a child. Too many of them have been forced to grow up far too soon by dealing with the effects of adult behaviours and emotions.
We have all said that the contact letters will be discussed with our children in age appropriate format. We have all had significant training in regards to adoption and the damage that our children have already sustained and what is and is not appropriate to be discussed with them. There are professional physcologists who have dealt with adopted children for many years and know what it is appropriate for a child to hear from their birth parents. These professionals have dedicated their careers to helping improve the lives of today's adopted children.
So if you don't mind I for one will be following the advice of these professionals rather than a random stranger that has come on to a forum with their own issues regarding adoption offering their opinion on how ?I should be doing things.

If you like to quote anything I said that requires an apology I'd certainly consider it.

However no, I won't agree to play nicely to keep the peace. I consider posts I make on Adoption to primarily be to give adoptive parents support not to be polite to those whose purpose may be laudible but is theoretical. I've benefitted from this board at times when I've been at breaking point as I know others have. I have disagreed with other adopters and I'm pretty sure some of them have disagreed with me but I'm not going to nitpick about calling an un-named social worker names (even if I wouldn't do it myself) who has been less than supportive of a parent dealing with a difficult situation, I very much doubt OP has called them names out loud and a forum is the ideal place to vent.

I think your attitude of using a potentially upsetting and triggering contact letter as some kind of exercise building emotional intelligence is dangerous and cold and doesn't place any value on a parents experience and knowledge of their child. And I can't just suck that up and not comment - not to mention your attempts to lecture us about how we need to do better which might be true but doesn't predispose me to feel kindly towards you.

And why you would assume any child adopted in the past 20 years had suffered no trauma before adoption is peculiar - in my (limited, though I suspect still more extensive than your's) experience it would be the minority rather than the majority. DS was relinquished at birth and still suffers ongoing problems as a result of his early life trauma which require extra support.

More than this, an awful lost of posters get put off posting on here because of the short shrift they get. It isn't fair. I want to hear their views, and so do others, and instead they end up sending private emails!

Start up a thread complaining about whatever you want to complain about including us and I'm sure we'll do our best to sit on our hands. Or invite views on generalised issues where we can express what we think. You'll notice that threads by adoptees and birth parents get relatively few comments from adopters and even then they tend to be short and supportive because we accept that they need to be left to discuss amongst themselves issues that are unique to them. But yes, posters who hijack real issues affecting real families today do get short shrift because that isn't fair. And unless we're putting off people who are looking for support by this kind of argument then I can't really lose sleep over it to be honest, people who want to tell us how we should be doing things.. not so much... or not unless they approach it in a rather less abrasive way than you have. Yes I'm aware I've lost patience with you and am generally more diplomatic (ha ha - I know you don't agree) but I find your hectoring approach to what we should be doing unhelpful - as if we've, not one of us, ever had to consider emotional intelligence, resilience, separation anxiety, birth parent searches, executive processing disorders, attachment disorders, birth family contact, birth family LACK of contact. Even saying condescendingly Children will have the feelings you are afraid of whether you are talking about them or not. It is better to talk about them - in age appropriate language and concepts. as if we aren't the people our children are talking to about these feelings they have, dealing with the daily nightmares, the problems in school and clubs they bring with them, having those conversations with them about "why couldn't my birth mum look after me" in a way that is both truthful but not soul destroying and as respectful as we can be towards those parents because our children share their genes, without whitewashing the truth.

You seem to think we're not listening to you - the truth is that we know what you're banging on about and more and it really isn't helpful in this context. You also fail to take into account that quite a few of us have met each other and sometimes our children so we aren't making assumptions about strangers on the internet. Even those we haven't met personally we have "talked" to online for so many years that we know the age and sometimes background of the children which won't necessarily (quite rightly) be shared openly.

I can see its important to you to have the final say so will leave it up to you now. I promise not to post once on any thread you care to start - but I would like you to quote what you'd like me to apologise for - just disagreeing with you doesn't count.

No doubt I should wait before posting this in a more considered way... but I'm not going to.

AdoptedOnce - please start your own thread which adopters can choose to avoid, if you want general views. It is deeply unhelpful to keep side-lining the request for support/experienced views that the OP made (particularly after she asked you not to).

I just don't know where to start with your idea that adopted children wouldn't have experienced neglect, trauma or other severely harming experiences prior to being adopted. I know you were only saying "some" might not have, but this is just not true of the world of UK adoption. Very few babies are "relinquished" (and even then, the prenatal trauma can have a lifelong impact). Cash-strapped LAs are running training on therapeutic parenting and caring for traumatised children, that is offered to every adopter in my LA before they are approved as adopters - they do this because they know it will be needed. Many adopted children do thrive and hurray for that - but it's rarely without support to get there.

MissF - to return to the letterbox question, I would talk to BAAF about he LA claiming they only screen for two years. It's so wrong. In the meantime, I guess you screen them yourself, and share detail selectively according to what would best help your LO. It's a hideous position to be in, but we can all just do our best to strike the right balance at the time.

crikey Adopted you are like a Jackinthebox -and not a particularly well informed Jackinthebox

Anyway I am glad that MissF is happy with what she is happy with
I hope we all choose to the best of our ability for our children

Well Adopted is very knowledgeable - she KNOWS that I called a SW a monkey.

Actually the correspondence was signed 'Letterbox' - hence the saying it was from a monkey. It could have been a ferret I suppose.

But do do do jog on elsewhere. Your points here are irrelevant to my situation and your bitching at posters offering me advice is most irksome.

Make your own thread stop hi-hacking mine.

Velvet, what you are saying is not fair. If people come back with debate and discussion on the wrongs and rights that is fine, but instead I was confronted with personal comments and accusations which weren't true. Personal comments are not helpful. I made it clear that my concern was children's wellbeing.

I am going to respond to what you said about forcing adult emotions on a child, and so this is me responding, not drilling my point home or being patronising or a jackinthebox. Love and hope are universal child and adult (when you tell your child you love them are you forcing adult feelings on them?). Also, I am not talking about forcing anything on a child. I am saying that if the child is aware that he/she is adopted there will already be feelings about this and almost certainly a sense of loss - I think you agree. A child will do better in life if they are brought up with a knowledge of the reality of their life even if some of that reality is not great - I am not sure if you agree or not. Where we certainly differ, I think, in any event, is that I am saying that the sense of loss will be alleviated if the child knows that they were loved by their parents, and the parents miss them, even if the parents were not able to look after them adequately, even if the parents had been abusive, and also to know in that context that the adopter believes that being with them is a better place for them at that time. A child will understand that. I think it would help, not further traumatise. It will help to hear words of love. (Clearly it would not help to know the extreme things which Kewcumber referred to in an earlier post - I am not talking about that). Every time an emotion is understood and processed, it will help them deal with all life will throw at them - eg at preschool, playgroups, school and outside school with friends - as a fairly normal parent living a normal life l am often amazed at the sort of things my dc deal with on a daily basis. It will also help them identify good and bad behaviours and know where to turn if they suffer abuse again. I am not being patronising. What I am saying is in accordance with current thinking.

Again, responding to your comment about training - very good point. I understand that many of you are saying that you have had training, and that you are following the training, and that what I am saying is not in accordance with the training. However, what I am saying is that your training does not tally with up to date thinking in other parallel areas. It is quite possible that the training is in fact out of date. It is quite possible it was not put together by an experienced psychologist - I would be surprised if a psychologist would current endorse the "emotional blackmail" thinking. It is quite possible it is not comprehensive enough. There is nothing wrong with questioning things.

What I do absolutely agree with is that the SWs should maintain better contact with adopters until the children are adults though I would say that should be visits etc not just in relation to letterbox.

It is not true that all adoptions nowadays are as a result of abuse or neglect which has been traumatic - that simply is not true. There is a huge amount of respectable press about forced adoptions, and the guardian article linked recently included quotes from senior people within the service - it is a serious issue.

Kewcumber.... I have already said specifically where I think you have gone over the line. You say you think everything you have said is fine. We agree to differ. End of. I suggested two sections on adoption so that your support line isn't interfered with - you don't like that either. Who is more aware of and has a better understanding of all the psychological issues you list out, you or me? Who knows. I am pleased to see you have been reading what I have written (and I am sorry about my error about the 30 years thing) - even if you disagree with me or find it irrelevant or distasteful - not everyone was reading what I wrote, and I have been accused of saying things I hadn't said. Hence me responding time and time over.

I wont post again unless someone actually directs something at me!

I'm not ardently pro-adoption although I think it has a place and hope to do it. But I do feel that once adoption has taken place, it's not a game. It's a genuine relinquishing of the child forever and a real new family and fresh start for the child, albeit one in which every feeling and experience from their past life is valued and respected. But the child is the one setting the pace there surely - they decide how much of a new identity they wish to forge and how much of the future will include past connections. How are they supposed to let go, assuming that is right for them, if they're getting these letters every year outlining some random adult emotional life? Because that is what she is, really. Obviously for those children who need, as adults, to reconnect with birth families, that option should be there for them and they should have the support to do it. But I wonder if these Lost Lost Family programmes have set unrealistic and unhelpful expectations (for birth parents) and pressure (for children) of how often it will be right for them to meet their birth parent? Is it really appropriate that meeting birth parent seems to be turning into an expected chapter in the life narratives of adopted adults? It's makes sense that people who struggle with having been adopted will make a lot more noise than those who haven't found it as problematic, which perhaps is creating a false cultural expectation that most adopted people will want and need to straddle the two worlds when they are older.

In the OP's shoes, I would probably decide this wasn't appropriate for my child and withdraw from the Letterbox scheme. As this hasn't been suggested by anyone, I wonder if I'm missing something? Of the three adoptions in which I have known children to have yearly outings with birth parents, it has looked to my untrained eye like a complete disaster in every way.

Psychologists will tell you that a child who is told 'I miss you' by a person they love who they can't see will feel sadness and guilt. That actually makes lots of sense when you think about it.

It's also all about the parent and not about the child. There are guidelines for writing letterbox letters and, for exactly this reason, comments like this are usually (always?) on the list of don'ts.

Our attachment training was done by a psychologist. His specialism is working with LAC. I'm guessing he had some idea what he was on about.

I'm interested in what the 'up to date thinking in parallel universes areas' is though...

Hopefully the picture will load. Surreys leaflet for birth families. Hard.y exhaustive. Letterbox staff patronising, so that's why I look at letterbox posts here. To try and 'flavour' opinion. I have got some good advice but sometimes get derailed by contentious comments. I sit here wondering what 15 years of this is going to bring me to keep going. The affect of what has happened to our family like a road crash. With no trust in the process from the beginning as a result of the way social services have treated us and the conversation with the postbox lady to try and get some extra help. I am finding this harder and harder.

It's only common sense, isn't it. However, I can understand that children who haven't been exposed to healthy, loving relationships may well simply yearn to be wanted in any way by birth parents, including 'need love' - but in that case, I don't see how it could possibly be a good idea for that pattern to continue (via needy letters) into a new season when the child is already being asked to perform the herculean task of forming a healthy attachment with a new adult. And when the 'need love' isn't present, that seems to create its own problems for a child dealing with rejection - in the case of one child I knew (yes, anecdotal) he somehow got hold of his birth mother's address and was emotionally broken when he turned up at her home to find other children sleeping in their bedrooms and no place for him in their home or hearts. The continuing 'loving' contact from her had completely misled him. It just seems crackers.

Sorry Suzanne, posted before seeing your post.

So these letters aren't actually supposed to be to the child at all then??

Suzanne are you saying that, as a birth mother, it's very difficult to get it right, given that there are so many rules and it's a bloody hard letter to write in the first place?

Love yes. Emotional incontinence no. It's not confined to this scenario. My mil tries to do it with my kids. I stop her - that's my job.

Thanks for posting the Surrey one. I'm sorry you're finding it hard. Of course it IS hard - how could it be otherwise? :(

Bottom line for me is - we don't need or want your emotional baggage. Put the children's needs first, think about them not you.

Generally if the letter starts each sentence with "I....." its a duffer.
"You were always a smiley baby, you make me so proud, you are in my thoughts daily..." that is good.

Suzanne I'm sorry you are finding it harder and harder. I have just written our first letter to birth parents and found that hard enough.
All I can say is I really hope with all my heart that my lo's birth parents engage in letterbox contact because I truly know how important this will be to him as he gets older. I also want them to try and find some comfort from my letters to them so I do think very hard about what they want to know about and hear about as well.

Gosh Fenella I could understand your response to Once but now I think you're just hardened. That was unprovoked and hostile. How would you like to be in Suzanne's position reading that instruction list with no idea how it translates to what you're feeling? And it is subjective - 'you make me so proud' could be construed as being about her, not to mention being the sort of thing a parent might say so therefore possibly 'wrong'. I'm beginning to think I couldn't write a letter that would please you either.

Talk about them and us...I've seen it all now.