Adoption or not

[Ainsley1999]

Im pregnant and really dont think that i will be ready to be a mum. At the doctor i saw a leaflet about adoption and i am seriously thinking about the option. I havent told any one but when mentioned adoption in a conversation with my parents they both said that no way would there flesh and blood be adopted. I know its my choice but can they stop me? I really dont want to fall out with them over it

You say you know why your mom is against adoption Ainsley and I'm wondering if maybe she was adopted, or was once in your position. I'm absolutely not suggesting you explain anything at all, just that since you know the reason, could this give you more understanding of her reasons for wanting to care for your baby.

You do sound very emotionally mature and thoughtful as others have pointed out, and so you probably have a good idea why you want your baby brought up outside of your family, by adopters. I think you need to talk these matters over with someone in RL - someone independent.

Hope you can get an appointment to see someone at Brooke - I'm sure they would be helpful, and you could talk in complete confidence about everything.

Ainsley

So this number 08448487900 is for Adoption UK who provide the sort of non directive supportive but informed counselling that you are in huge need of right now. Call them, they will be lovely and being experienced in all three parts of the adoption triangle hugely knowledgeable.

Italian is right in what she says, all the crap right now will fade and you need good people, around you. If this is usually your mum chances are it still is.

I am a birth parent, I relinquished a baby as a teen - I know a lot more now. I wouldn't do it again. Maybe it will be right for you but honestly it's not an action that is likely to offer you great outcomes. Statistically birth mothers struggle, statistically abortions are comparatively rosey in the outcomes for women who have them.

I think QOD mention America having a better system, it really doesn't. It has a system where a lack of welfare and the support of our benefits system coupled with a strong fundamentalist religious presence in some communities creates an intolerable burden of pressure and fear. Women in countries where there is decent support don't routinely give up babies to adoption. There are big American groups made up of hugely regretful birth mothers who feel that their babies were stolen from them.

I think you should explore all outcomes, you are human so there is no way you have had time or the informed conversations you need to work through what is best for you.

There is a real danger in seeing adoption as an adoption that preserves life as it was before for everyone with the added bonus that someone gets a great baby. It's a form of denial. Adoption for any child can be traumatic, and you become a mother. You will be there with your post birth body, your milky breasts and no baby and that disconnect continues for you whole life. Your baby keeps growing and so as you age you carry this unknown baby, toddler, then child and finally adult with you. You can't control whether they contact you or your family so your later children have to be brought up knowing all about it all.

And whilst this is only your decision, an abortion creates no baby, birthing then relinquishing removes a family member from everyone. They have no rights but may well have had a long time imaging their relationship with the next generation. I would encourage you to see this from lots of perspectives not because any matter more than yours but because you will live most of them at some point.

Take care.

Hi everyone - so here we go again.

For all of you haranguing me - you are the reason why people have backstreet abortions/ keep children they aren't ready to have.

There is more to being a woman than motherhood, there is more to motherhood than pushing a child out of your vagina.

Are women that use surrogates not real women?
Are women that had ovarian cancer / cervical cancer not real women because now they cannot have children?
Are women that do not want children at all not real women?
If you adopt are you not a real mother because you didnt give birth?
Lets just say that women who cant breast feed and have c sections arent real moms too while we are at it.

There is no such thing as a "real" anything - and it's that mentality that pressures women in everyday society. Its very important for young girls to know that they should not be pressurized into thinking keeping a baby is an "ideal" or "best case scenario".

It's okay to not be ready to be a mom and its very very very dangerous to tell a child that or imply that "When you look at your baby all will be well in the world and you will be the best mum ever!"

Thats bullshit

A lot of people regret having their child and it bloody shows in their parenting - hence why i said its very dangerous to have a baby when you arent ready. When i say not ready I dont mean a little nervous or worried about prep school fees - I mean bloody not ready.

Why does society paint this ridiculous picture of motherhood as though its for everybody. It isnt. Children are not objects something you need to have. Being pregnant is a biological process and doesnt make you anything other then pregnant. It doesnt make u a good person/mum/ anything!!!!

Adoption is not a worst case scenario or a sad unfortuneate thing to do - its that type of tone and rhetoric that is already torturing this poor gil, did you even read her OP?? Her parents are already making her feel like shit - as though child rearing is the obvious option. its not. There's only the best option

Sorry i rarely do this but Ainsley1999 Do not listen to Inamin They obviously regret adoption and have their own personal agenda.
You can go for adoption and regret it and you can keep the baby and regret it. Its very irresponsible for people to keep talking about babies like they are these cute fluffy toys that will make your heart melt the secound you look at them. People are throwing their damn babies in the bin because they dont want them if someone wants to go for adoption please do not discourage them. Sometimes it is for the best it really is. It wont be easy Ainsley1999 but neither is motherhood when it isn't what you wanted.
If you want to go for adoption and go through with it, you will be an amazing mother for doing so. In the UK you are allowed to opt for an option where when your child is 18 they will be given a box from the council. You can put a letter in it explaining yourself with pictures etc. Its not the doom and gloom some people are implying it is. Some people go for adoption and say it's the best decision they have ever made in their life and they and their child are better for it. I'm not waving the adoption flag but since you say thats what you want i think its important for you to know thats okay!

Candid, I don't think you've really read the thread, that or you're projecting your own agenda violently all over it here.

There are no "back street abortions" in the UK, we have safe, legal and free abortion access.

Nobody has called the OP not a real woman, or anything - I can't understand why you're banging on about that stuff.

Its very important for young girls to know that they should not be pressurized into thinking keeping a baby is an "ideal" or "best case scenario".

It's okay to not be ready to be a mom and its very very very dangerous to tell a child that or imply that "When you look at your baby all will be well in the world and you will be the best mum ever!"

Thats bullshit

A lot of people regret having their child and it bloody shows in their parenting - hence why i said its very dangerous to have a baby when you arent ready. When i say not ready I dont mean a little nervous or worried about prep school fees - I mean bloody not ready.

Why does society paint this ridiculous picture of motherhood as though its for everybody. It isnt. Children are not objects something you need to have. Being pregnant is a biological process and doesnt make you anything other then pregnant. It doesnt make u a good person/mum/ anything!!!!

Totally agree with you here - some phrasing aside. But this is not a blanket argument for adoption. The same very good arguments could be made for abortion, which is not a terrible thing either. We should be considered very fortunate that we are allowed to have options - that if we are not ready to be mothers we can make that choice. Please don't pretend there is one right way for everybody because there clearly isn't.

BertieBotts I was being attacked earlier on in the thread and i believe that the OP needs someone to come out and actually say you know what love, its okay to not only consider adoption but to actually go through with it which she has said several times she wants to.

There have been some very very irresponsible comments made on this thread, with people either making it about them, or about this poor girls mother. Who cares if her mom wants to be a grandparent? What about her innocent 15 year old daughter who is suffering right now?

In regards to back street abortions in the UK - can i say respectfully that they are alive and kicking. I've been to one, of course they aren't legal - hence why they are backstreet abortions. They are rife in the ethnic minority community especially when young girls are even too scared to go to the gp or a proper clinic!!!!

I know no one said the real women comment to her - I was addressing the people attacking me, I don't know if MN too down their posts or not. In my first post to her i told her to not let the whole "real women have babies/how could you give up your flesh and blood" argument make her feel bad. Furthermore the OP did say her mother was using a lot of that "my flesh and blood" rhetoric that many people do as though biology makes you a mother / grandmother / anything really.

OP seems to have a strong head on her shoulders as she's said despite what her mother says she knows a proper family who really want a child is the best option as opposed to being raised by grandma and having the fact that mum couldn't cope rubbed in your face daily as it's impossible to keep it a secret what are they going to do move city? Whats the OP going to do pretend her child is her sibling? It's a selfish and self righteous thing to request of someone and I'm happy OP knows it shes wise beyond her years too many young girls have been forced into motherhood by people pushing motherhood on them like its a rite of passage or something its sick to be honest.

When someone comes on here saying they cant conceive and should they consider adoption everyone runs to their aid saying yes yes yes its an amazing thing to do of course you should.

When someone says shall i give my child up for adoption they get some of the filth ive read. I just want this young girl to know shes not mad for wanting to go for adoption, and to hear someone actually on her side say yes, it is the best thing if its what you want. No one has said that yet and i feel for her as its obviously what she wants to do.

Ainsley I really like butterfly's idea of writing it down.

Maybe write down feelings, ideas etc, and showing your mum and your mum could do likewise. It is less threatening, and the person needs to read it all without comment and then you can maybe talk afterwards if you are ready, just an idea.

Thank you lalalonglegs. You make a good point, do not be afraid to change your mind. Whatever you decide, your mind, you can change it, you can stick to it, you can do either. The danger is we get backed into a corner where we feel there is only one way ahead. Don't let anyone back you into a corner, Ainsley.

Those of us who are adopters know that adopted children can be just as loved and cared for as birth children. Many people I meet now do not know my son is adopted and those who do think my kids act like normal siblings!

Inamin I agree totally, that America does not have a better adoption system. There mums-to-be who do not have support etc give up babies and really they could maybe keep those children and raise them well if they had support. Here most people are offered support and (aside from some wrong judgements which I am sure happen) birth parents are given every chance to succeed and help and support. Much better IMHO.

Sure candid always important not to let a 'personal agenda' run all over a thread. Ahem.

Ainsley if not used to mumsnet it is often quite fiesty so don't be put off by us just take what is useful:)

Actually what I post is partly experience but more about the research and experiences of those involved in adoption. I don't think the experienced adopters on here will be surprised at anything in my post not least the use of agencies like adoption UK as impartial agents to support decisions. They are person centred, they have no agenda but are up to date with research and legislation.

candidkate people are giving their opinions and advice, and sometimes speaking from real experiences they have had, either of relinquishing a baby for adoption or of adopting a child. We are seeking to help this young woman work through her situation and do what is best for her in the long run. That is all.

Just for the record when people on the adoption threads ask about adoption I do not rush to tell them to do it, I tell them to consider if it is right for them, because any parenting, however it is brought about is a big deal. And those of us who engage with adoptive-parents-to-be often share our own experiences and thoughts.

I do not think anyone is saying everything will all be OK if you just do X, Y, Z. None of us know what will be best but some people have more experience of these issues than others and they are sharing them.

I asked you before what your experience is. You used the word 'Mom' so I wonder if you are in the USA? You do not need to tell us your experience of all this but if you do it may explain your position a little more.

And of course there are plenty of people on here who think adoption is OK, me included. BUT she is young, newly pregnant and being pressurised by her parents to keep the baby. If there is one thing we all know about pressure is that it does not always make you do what people want, people may pressure you and that pressure turns you to do the opposite! I don't think it is good for Ainsley to do what her parents want or what others are pressuring her to do! I would like her to find her own way through this and we are trying to show her all cases, all scenarios, sometimes from people who have lived them/are living them!

No one says babies are fluffy, they are very, very hard work. But that is only half the story, the other half is, what support does a person have! Ainsley you can reflect on all this over the coming months and decide what is right for you. I, for one, am not saying do not give your baby up for adoption, I am saying do what is right for you but do consider all options and please speak to people in real life.

ainsley mumsnet is like this, so true! Do not be put off.

If you want to message a specific poster you can, just click on Message poster on the right hand side, I am saying this as I was on mumsent for about two years before I realised this!!!!

Inamin I want Ainsley to do what she wants and what she wants is clearly adoption shes said it a million times in all her posts. Shes been very clear that it's the option she wants and I think its bang out of order that so many people are trying to talk her out of it. I dont mind what anyone chooses and if she wanted to go through with keeping the child id be cheering her on and offering her support on that end. I'm not having a go inamin but please be supportive regarding what people want instead of using what you've researched to persuade her to do what you want. Adopted children go to loving caring families who want to desperately have children. Of course sometimes things dont go perfectly, but guess what - things dont always go perfectly when you keep the child either.

I dont mean to be fiesty Ainsley1999 and inamin no hard feelings but Ainsleyyou are the same age as my youngest sibling, I'm not that much older than you and understand the type of "oh my days how could you wanna give up your baby babies are like so cute i cant wait to be a mum because that's what every girl in the world is meant to do " rhetoric shes probably hearing right now. I know how social media and an entire year group of peers and their parents can stop you from leading a normal life indefinitely in todays day and age especially in a small town.

Italiangreyhound I know and I agree - maybe I am interpreting some posts differently than you are but many of them aren't just personal experiences but coy coercion tactics with agenda. I just think more support needs to be given on MN RE abortion and adoption. More people need to come forward and say its okay if thats what you want and its best if thats what you want. She's made her mind up and even though she is very young i just think that hearing a few people say your choice is whats best for you and the DC if thats what you want can really make a difference. She may wake up tomorrow and want to keep DC and if thats the case we should all then support that. Do you know what i mean? I feel like shes reiterated so many times that shes not even on the fence - she wants to go with adoption and that that takes balls. We should let her know the great things about that choice so she can sleep at night and not torture herself with guilt/confusion.

candidkate she most definitely has not said it a million times, she has said a lot about adoption BUT her opening post said 'i saw a leaflet about adoption and i am seriously thinking about the option. '

People are keen for Ainsley to think it all through. Her opening post was last Friday so even if she has definitely decided for adoption since then, it means she has been definite about that decision for 4 days!

Ainsley may well decide this is right, but better to view the process of making the decision, and I presume that is why she has come here, to discuss it, not to have everyone come on and say, 'Yes, good idea, you go for it!'

I do not want to pressurise her, I want to say I know for a fact (but will change it to I am pretty certain) that there will be a lot of people who want to adopt a newly born healthy baby. I know two people who did that and love their children to bits with an amazingly strong and wonderful love.... but that is not the point!

The point is what is right for Ainsley and with respect candidkate NONE of us know what that is! We only know that Ainsley has said - Im pregnant and really dont think that i will be ready to be a mum. At the doctor i saw a leaflet about adoption and i am seriously thinking about the option.

So we are here to discuss it with her, in her own time, and the decision will be all hers. I would not want her or anyone to now down to pressure from mum and dad or from school friends, or others at school.

Cross posted candidkate.

I, for one, certainly do not want Ainsley to feel she cannot sleep and I do not her to torture herself with guilt/confusion. But my saying one or other thing may well make little difference. The only difference I feel I can make is to help her think through the options. But I have not been in her position.

What I will say is that now is the time for support, in real life, help and encouragement to explore all issues and options while she has the chance and the choice.

This is not a time for people to blindly say 'yes you are right go ahead'. If after her careful consideration Ainsley says that she wants her child to be adopted I will, indeed say, well done for making a tough decision.

I do see it is a very tough decision and we have all said how mature you are Ainsley, we all see that,

But I think, in my humble opinion that being pregnant for 10 weeks and posting for 4 days is not definite decision made. Ainsley whatever you do, talk to people in real life and do get support. We are all here for you, even if we disagree with each other we all care about you or we would not spending ages posting to you!

I really cannot be bothered to copy and paste the amount of times she has said she wants adoption but okay Italiangreyhound
Ainsley whatever you do is the right thing.

candidkate I know she has said it and I feel that her thoughts are very important. I also know in the future she will want to look back and say I made an informed decision, with support - whatever she decides.

She will not want to think I posted on a social network site and everyone agreed with me and so I went ahead.

Really we are posting because we have her best interests at heart, you too, I know.

Pregnancy releases lots of hormones into your body and it is not an easy time for some. I felt very sick and others can feel ill etc. You need lots of good advice and help around you. I know we all want what is best.

I am off now to do something and will check in later.

Ainsley please come back and chat we are all here for you. I know it sounds like we are arguing but we all care!

Coming at this with no idea what adoption involves, not having done it, but having got pregnant accidentally at 19... my thoughts...

I accidentally got pregnant - was most definitely not ready. Adoption didn't cross my mind/no one suggested. I had an abortion. No regrets, but now (mid 40's) as a mother to one DS(8) I often think 'what if?'. That's it though. No real grief/regrets.

Ainsley, are you an only child? You seem far more mature than I was at your age. Your parents are still very young (lots of people their age are still getting/trying to get pregnant). Perhaps they would have loved another child? With their maturity they know that they will love that baby already - because it is yours. If I was your parent, in this situation, I couldn't bear to part with my daughters baby either.

Personally, I see huge benefits in your parents looking after your baby. As long as it's done on your terms (they look after him/her completely forever, or until you are ready/want to do so). As long as baby knows who's who, babies just need lots of consistent love and care.

A stranger adopting him/her won't remove the situation forever, one day that baby will come back looking for you, wanting to meet you and their real family and wonder why he/she was adopted. What will you say?

I am in no way judging, but at 15 you are so very young, if you were 20 and pregnant, but still didn't want to be, you might make a completely different decision, or of course, you might not.

By the way, I think you are very brave to even think about having a baby at your age (I opted for the easier option - in my opinion), but I don't think I could have given a baby away with such a perfect family solution. I think you may feel completely different when you give birth.

None of this is meant to offend or hurt. Just my thoughts as an older person. Good luck xxx

I have a big brother who is 21

My mum wasnt adopted so thats not the reason shes against it, all she said is that she doesnt want me to give away flesh and blood and we will care for the baby as a family and everything will be fine.

The dads not bullying me its just some girls from my year.

The dad is my mums friends son hes not been at school for over a week and i have not heard from him either. His mum said she will support me with what ever i decide but she cant force Joey to be involved if he doesnt want to - and he dosent

I know I need to talk to someone but I want to have my mum on my side when i do and maybe have her come with me but just now I feel like shes not on my side and i think I have upset her by talking about adoption

Ainsley: I can understand your Mum.
I have grandchildren and I love them as much as my children.

Your Mum probably also knows that if you have the baby adopted you will probably think about it every day for the rest of your life.

Love, don't beat yourself up about not using contraception, as others have said most of us have done the same at least once.

Ignore the gossipy, small minded school 'friends'.

Life will get better again for you.

Ainsley I am sorry you are going through such a hard time. Do you have supportive friends around you as well as family? And is there a supportive member of staff at school you can report the bullying to?

I personally (am an adoptive mum) think the best thing is to try and access impartial counselling and support. You can approach more than one organisation, be it Brook or another pregnancy advisory service, or an adoption related organisation, I think After Adoption would probably be able to talk to you about it.

You have time. A lot of time. Only abortion has a time limit on it, and hopefully pregnancy advice/counselling now at this stage means you will be able to come to a decision about abortion that is best for you well before the legal limit. Once that passes, if you are certain you are having the baby, then you have months. Don't let anybody pressure you into making a decision or taking a course of action you aren't comfortable with during your pregnancy because you do not have to make a decision at this time. You can call social services during your pregnancy, but equally you can wait until after the birth. You might want to reach out to other women who have relinquished their babies to talk about what it's been like for them, or maybe not. It depends on what feels like the best thing for you personally. Whatever you decide, you have several months post-birth to think some more - it is a massive decision and you are guarunteed time to fully consider. You may know before, but actually it's mmore likely you won't know for certain what is the better decision for you until after the birth.

It is totally 100% okay to decide on adoption now, then change your mind later to parenting, then change it back again, and change it again 50 times from now until after the birth - that can be some women's experiences of making these decisions, because it is obviously a huge decision.
About your first question, if your mother was to insist to social services that she wants to raise the baby herself, they would have to consider the possibility - they have a responsibility to make a decision which is in the baby's best interests, which might not always be what is in your own best interests. They also need to consider family options before strangers. However it's certainly not a given that your mum could overide you. It would be a big decision for her to make in the first place, because right now she is still adjusting to the idea that you are having a baby. As you get closer to birth, it may well be that she is able to support you in whatever you decide. Also, social services and ultimately the court wouldn't rule in favour of your mum caring for the baby just because she wants to. They really would make a careful assessment of your situation and they would listen to your views, you wouldn't be ignored. It's just that they will be thinking about the baby first and foremost, and you second after the baby.

I think you are dealing with this as best as you can, and you sound very mature to me. I hope you are able to find some support and counselling as soon as possible.

I can't imagine why anyone thinks that arguing on this thread will help this young woman who is in a very vulnerable state and just doesn't need having to cope with conflicting views.

I'm sorry to have to point this out Lilka after my comment about arguing on the thread, but the advice you are giving in the last but one para of your post is incorrect. The process you describe relates to a situation where a court has made an Order allowing social workers to remove a baby/child from the birthparents because of neglect or abuse, under the terms of the Children Act 1989.

With relinquished babies the process is different and the protocol for dealing with this issue is under the terms of the Adoption and Children Act 2002.

Ainsley (or anyone else) if you put into google "Protocol for Relinquished Babies" into google, you will get all the information you need. It may not be easy to follow but then anything legal is always complicated - but you need to know that your parents don't have any rights over your baby at all.

I think the best thing to do is to go and talk to an adoption social worker from the LA where you live, who will be able to explain the process, if indeed this is what you decide to do.

I rarely post here but feel compelled to post. Ainsley1999 this is entirely your decision to make and I don't add this to persuade you one way or the other. I had my first child at fifteen, he is now sixteen himself...we have been financially poor over some of his life but the joy of our relationship has made it all worth it. I wasn't sure what to do when I found out I was pregnant an it was hard at times but, he is happy, healthy, educated and so am I! I was on my own for a long time and i studied (which was and is important to me) in an unusual way but I have a large family now, a job I love, a home, a marriage and a genuine thankfulness that I made the decision I did.
I am not against abortion or adoption, I have had an abortion myself, but remember the terrified hopelessness of my fifteen year old self and it's easy to feel that there are no options.

In many parts of the UK there are specialist schools for young mothers which have onsite nurseries and are supportive spaces to continue your education. You can attend whether you plan to raise the baby yourself or not. What region of the country are you in? This might be an option for you.

Lilka has made some excellent comments, as usual.

I do agree with NanaNina about the rights, or in this case lack of rights, of extended birth family. As far as I am aware the parents of the birth parent do not have a right to stop a child going for adoption. The only person who could do that is a birth father with parental responsibility if he wanted to parent the child. BUT don't take my word for it as I am only going on experience from a friend.

Having said that the only factor I am not aware of is how you being 15 comes into play. It may well have no affect or it may, NanaNina - do you know?

I tried Googling around to find some answers but it is confusing and various county counsels all say different things, some saying they would consider the needs of the child etc. But I am genuinely not sure if that is a legal position for children who are relinquished.

Of course Ainsley professional advice from independent adoption organisation will answer you better than me, but as your original questions was mentioned I thought I would add my 2p worth!

Also, for what it is worth I do really think bridge building is needed with your mum, for you both! You clearly care about your mum and want her beside you. If you could access the facts about adoption it may make you want that more for your baby or it may make you think again. Either way you will only get to that point if you access the counselling and you clearly want your mum beside you. So can you and your mum both put all prior thoughts to one side (not ignored by just for the moment not engaged) and get to the independent counsellor? As Lilka says you clearly have time to consider all this.