Supreme Court ruling

[Flybee]

Presumably my university is not alone in having a transgender policy that states, amongst other Stonewall Speak, that transgender people may use any toilet of their choosing?

Presumably this policy will now have to change?

I've seen that the NHS and other public bodies will be issued with renewed guidance - will the same be done for universities?

I imagine it will be. Though some Universities made all their women only spaces gender neutral some time ago, I wonder if this means they will have to revise this and put back some women only spaces.

Sorry do you mean some universities changed their women’s toilets to gender neutral, leaving the men’s toilets as men’s?

No, all toilets became gender neutral. Men and women’s. Apologies for lack of clarity.

Yes my university has a lavatory & changing room policy like that @Flybee

It's verrrrry interesting that the day after the OfS fine of Sussex University, the policy pages for LGBT (but they really mean only the T) are "Under construction."

I very strongly believe that there should be safe spaces for those who are trans but not by removing women only spaces.

They can still have mixed sex toilets right? What they can’t do is have toilets designated ‘female’ but which transwomen are encouraged to use if they like

i imagine they’ll have three types from now on, male female and mixed. This is what we have and it works well

But if they like I think they could make them all mixed sex as long as they are completely enclosed

@tryingtobesogood - In one of our new buildings, there are gender-neutral toilets, which do meet the regulations of them being enclosed cubicles with floor-to-ceiling walls and a wash basin.

All the others are still single-sex (well, they are supposedly, but the transgender policy contradicts this... Surely the ruling however means that this policy is - and has always been - illegal).

@LittleBigHead Hmmm! I think my uni has other priorities tbh... The transgender policy was meant to be reviewed in 2023 🙄

@bge - Yes, that's what I mean. Surely the transgender policy is illegal by stating that transgender people can use whichever toilets they like.

Our newest building has gender-neutral toilets, though I'm not sure there is the cash to transform the rest!

My university's policy on loos says that it's a "basic right" for everyone (including visitors) to use the lavatory where they feel most comfortable.

As a woman, then, I feel "most comfortable" in a single sex loo.

It's going to cost a hell of a lot of money to sort this out. We have a lot of (fake) single-sex toilets, even in the new buildings that have gone up in the last few years. Those are now illegal, is my understanding - at least as they are currently managed under the university's trans inclusion policies. The university will either need to make them unisex or properly single sex, instead of single gender.

So it's a choice between spending a huge amount of money to convert those many toilets to self-contained unisex cubicles or inviting the mother of all tantrums from the gender people when they clarify what a women's toilet is.

We have men’s, women’s and gender neutral ones thankfully

What does your trans policy say about access to toilets, though? I’d be surprised if the men’s and women’s weren’t actually mixed sex because of “inclusion”.

I wonder who uses the 'mixed' in reality? Those looking for the shortest queue, assuming each category equal number of loos?

Our trans policy says use the toilet or changing room you feel like using. The new buildings have single sex and gender neutral though just use the half skirt half not symbol rather than text on signal so I've nearly walked in before.

The old buildings have single sex only and accessible toilets which are unisex.

Our trans policy is still up. I think we will just carry on and it'll be up to women to object if they dare. They may update the policy but I don't think they'll highlight this to students. So students will think the same rules apply. I.e. transwomen can use the ladies if they want to.

What's been the reaction of everyone's colleagues to the FWS victory?

Several of my colleagues are losing their tiny minds on BlueSky, lots of claptrap about flawed process, sex essentialism and trans genocide.

My union branch is no better - like a stoned teenage incel with rare access to his mum's socials.

I fucking hate academia sometimes.

Of course.

But also universities will have to get rid of any policy that allows people to use the space of their "gender" choice. Unless they remove any pretence to safe single-sex spaces for women and men.

Which would be a bit of a tricky thing what with Jewish and Muslim students & staff ...

Religion is a protected characteristic in the EA2010 - of equal weight to that of gender reassignment.

Afraid of what?

As has been said many many times, they have always been afforded the same rights as anyone else. Of course they are allowed to participate in sport, use public toilets, etc.

Is that a valid concern? I mean surely plenty (not all) of trans men use women’s toilets because they feel safer? No one is going to charge them with perjury over it!

No law has "just passed". The Supreme Court judgment clarifies existing law, i.e the Equality Act 2010. It clarifies that the protected characteristic of sex in the Equality Act refers to biological sex, and that trans people's rights are protected separately under gender reassignment.

The judgment means that organisations have been acting unlawfully in their (often Stonewall influenced) interpretation of the Equality Act by undermining the protected characteristic of sex. They will now have to redress this by making their services actually single sex or unisex.

The gender certificate is a marker of gender not sex, in any case.