Supreme Court ruling

[Flybee]

Presumably my university is not alone in having a transgender policy that states, amongst other Stonewall Speak, that transgender people may use any toilet of their choosing?

Presumably this policy will now have to change?

I've seen that the NHS and other public bodies will be issued with renewed guidance - will the same be done for universities?

You sound quite extraordinarily selfish. Let's hope you never find yourself incapacitated in a hospital bed with a violent man next to you and relying on a third person to restrain him from attacking you, as happened to my elderly mother. It's clearly important to your identity to preen with self satisfaction at how open-minded and cool around men you are, but you're not in a position to give other people's rights away. We have the Equality Act to thank for that.

Yes, indeed. Before the thread got derailed, it was about the practical implications of the SC judgment for the sector.

Its interesting seeing other threads on here about organisations responding already to the clarity on the law. There's crickets from the management at my place. They will have a lot to unravel. It isn't just toilets, it's changing rooms, halls, residential trips, policies proscribing certain language in relation to sex and gender. I wouldn't go so far as to say I almost feel sorry for senior management but, that is quite a knot that they are going to have to untie just to comply with the law.

I don’t know if anyone else has been thinking about this, but it had occurred to me that this will be a particularly dangerous time for GC academics.

I had thought that there is going to be a fairly intense amount of debate now in Universities and that despite the clarification of the law with respect to the equality act, one might still get blackballed for not immediately decrying this news.

I am slightly worried that people will assume that if you show any positivity about the clarification, then you hate trans people.

Why are so many people concerned about transmen all of a sudden? Honestly before the ruling I've never heard anyone give a crap about transmen. Now it's all about transmen.

It's not the gotcha people seem to think it is. Or am I missing something?

Tbh our students are not particularly vocal about trans issues. It has mostly been driven by HR/professional service staff. I teach huge first year modules and we don't have any non-binary/trans students as far as I am aware (also why it would be bonkers to change toilet set up!) But we do have largely international cohorts who seem more focused on study rather than identity.

Sure it would be lovely if all the violent sex offenders recognised the humanity in women and didn’t assault them. But until that day comes, women need safe spaces.

Our institutions sound similar @Oldmothershrubboard . I saw my first obviously transwoman student just a few days ago - six foot tall and head to toe in pink. Mostly our students are ethnic minorities and they appear quite conservative judging from our student politics. It’s not uncommon to see women students in full face hijab.

The focus definitely seems to be coming from above. In past years there’s definitely been some winding back and especially in response to the Rheindorf report but at the same time our trans policy still states that trans people are allowed to use the toilet facilities they prefer and our website signposts to Mermaids (!). There are no unisex loos in my building but I was in a different one last month and needed the loo. The former ladies had been converted to gender neutral and was deserted. Down the corridor there was a queue for the actual ladies.

I see UCU are holding a march on Parliament to protest the judgment this weekend. Meanwhile there’s crickets on pay and conditions progress.

Was the former ladies toilet properly converted, or did they just change the sign on the door?

Just the sign on the door. So hopefully they will just change it back because it seems to have done nothing but inconvenience women students and staff.

I’m wondering how this might affect Athena Swan which considers TIW to be women.

You can't really have a toilet for "disabled people and Muslim women" though. If Muslim women are allowed to use a particular single sex space it would have to be open to all women - and I'd bet the vast majority of women would use that in preference to a mixed sex toilet.

So you'd have enormous queues for the disabled toilet (discriminating against disabled people I'm the process, by the way) and a large set of virtually empty mixed sex toilets. In which case why not just keep them single sex?

Advance HE (which runs Athena Swan) has, alongside Stonewall, been responsible for wrongly advising universities on the law, and for getting ahead of the law. It will be interesting to see how they respond to the SC judgment.

Yes, I agree. They might try to wriggle out of complaints because they use ‘gender’ rather than ‘sex’, but they also refer to women when they mean anyone who says they are a woman. I suspect they’d rather close the whole thing down rather than revert to its original purpose. As you say, they are fully captured.

How privileged you are to come from a position where changing in front of a man or sharing a toilet with him doesn't bother you.

Many of the 1 in 30 women who have been raped or sexually assaulted probably feel differently.

It's much higher than 1 in 30. Rape Crisis reports that 1 in 4 women has been raped or sexually assaulted as an adult.

Yes, this.

As the OP, although I did specifically mention toilets as that is obviously highlighted in our transgender policy, it was about how the policy generally needed to be changed and about whether universities would be issued with any guidance.

There has been nothing so far from my university; I definitely feel as though they are the type of institution to not act unless they are specifically questioned (though we have a small, albeit quite vocal GC academics for academic freedom group who I feel might push the issue).

Sorry, I didn't check my stats properly. You are right and it is a horrific number

The renewed Athena swan charter does suggest data is collected on sex and gender after they reviewed data policies. But our dei department still only asks for 'gender you identify with'

Have you seen Jo Grady's post from the protest? She states she's "so proud" and includes a picture of a placard stating "The only good Terf is a ---- Terf" next to hanged stick figure.

If they have woman on their certificate, living as that gender means they go to the female toilet.

Nope. Where did you get that idea?

But interestingly, a woman who has transitioned to being a man can now legally enter women’s spaces.

Not necessarily. The Supreme Court ruling has dealt with this. Perhaps you should read it before spewing any more misinformation?

Good for Jo. She’s out doing something, whilst all you lot are discussing toilets on a forum.

Oh sweetie. You think we're doing nothing?!😂 No, I have been firing off emails left right and centre since the ruling.

And how vile of you to say it's good for a woman to call for other women to be hung. Shame on you.