Visiting my son, what's reasonable?

[Completecare]

My son lives a long way away and I can only visit 3/4 times a year. He comes back occasionally (more limited by AL allowance) and we talk on the phone once in a while. That's all fine. I'm going for a few days this week.

There's another thread here making me wonder if my thoughts regarding the visit are OK.

He lives with DW in a very small flat, so DP (not his dad) and I have rented a flat nearby.

They live in a very nice area and he'll be working, with a couple of his usual days off, no extra leave. He works shift, so will be free with mornings or evenings. So, (or me and DP) usually entertain myself while he's working and see him when he's free. We'll go for a walk and have breakfast or dinner together.

Usually there's an opportunity to have time alone with him because his wife will be working. I like his wife a lot and we'll have a nice time altogether, but it's nice to have him to myself a bit too. I also think it's probably good for her to have a break from me?

DP has said say the word and he'll take himself off so I can have breakfast alone with DS, but the last thing I want is to offend his DW by inviting him to breakfast and not including her. In her shoes I'd probably be glad of the peace in a multiday trip, but as a MIL, on MN at least, it seems hard to get things right.

So how do I say I'd like an hour or two alone with him without it becoming a big issue? Or is that an unreasonable expectation now he's married?

I Guess it depends how much time you already get alone.

You say often there will be times she’s at work and he isn’t due to his shifts so you’re already getting that time.

Also your ds feelings as a shift worker his time with his wife / friends / family is already going to be rather limited due to people’s working hours without making him give up time he does have just because you want him alone.

Though I can’t say I understand this needing your adult child, grandchild or whatever alone without anyone else. If it was an important conversation needed then sure. But a breakfast, walk to a park or whatever I don’t get the need for this special only us time that others seem to actively need.

dh comes or he doesn’t it’s up to him but I’d never deliberately when he was available book to take my mum out for a meal and not offer the invite.

Why do you want to see an adult child on his own, it's weird to me as me and married siblings all see our parents together and often whoever pops in or stays whenever. Can't imagine my mum n dad not inviting my dh out aswell.

No, on previous trips I've arranged to see him while she was at work. Or rather he's been off and available while she was working. This time she won't be at work. There'll be no opportunity to see him alone unless we specifically arrange it that way or she chooses not to accompany him.

I'm very aware of encroaching into their time, but this is three days 3-4 times a year and I'm (thinking of) asking for one breakfast.

It's not weird to want to see your adult child by themselves for a couple of times a year
Maybe your partner could take the lead. "What are your plans tomorrow? " I'm sure you'll want some mum and son time , I'm happy to just do a bit of exploring and I'm sure DIL will want a break from us ..

My biggest question is why do you want the one on one time. What is gained by having him all to your self rather than the four of you having breakfast?

I’d think if he wanted that though he would arrange that to happen.

That's just it. If you're seeing them regualrly and are popping in., you will see them alone. I go and see my parents without DP often. They wouldn't arrange anything specifcally to exclude him, going out for dinner or whatever he'd be included, but it just naturally happens that I see them often without him.

When you have to travel and "visit" that doesn't happen.

It's like I like my best friend's DH. I enjoy it when we all go out together, but I wouldn't want him to be there every single time we meet up, and I think most people would think it odd if he were.

What a weird post.

Even before I had kids, I recognised that because my in laws lived several hours away, they only got to see their son in my company. They were the most wonderful people and welcomed me into their family with open arms, but I still recognised that they would probably sometimes like to have him to themselves, so I encouraged him to have the occasional visit by himself.

My own grown up kids only live half an hour or so away, each with their husband/partner. I'm very fond of their partners and have followed my in-laws' example and welcomed them whole heartedly. I'm glad that they're around. But I also love meeting my DDs, singly or together, for a coffee or whatever, just like we used to.

It's just different. Meeting a friend is different 121 to it is in a group.

My own mother is fond of trying to organise this sort of situation. It always makes me
nervous and suspicious!

Are you referring to the secret lunch thread? Thats a totally different scenario.

I personally have no issue with dh having 121 with his mum but a few years ago, when I suggested during a visit that her, dh and SIL have dinner together without children or in laws and me and BIL stay home with respective children.... it caused WW3 almost for SIL and her (now ex) dp. He was furious. So i am afraid it does rather depend on the relationships of the people involved.

Ideally, you want to be able to say something like, "does anyone mind if I steal [ds name] for a mum and son breakfast/lunch one day this week." And everyone will agree.

I probably wouldn’t request it because I think it could be taken up the wrong way.

Instead I would hang back and chat to him while on a walk or help him prepare a meal and chat then. Unless you’re worried about I would let the 1•1 meeting up slide.

“how do I say I'd like an hour or two alone with him ”

You don’t. She’s his wife - if you want to talk privately with him, phone him when she’s at work and he isn’t. But to say you want time alone with your DS is to make yourself into the MIL from hell.

A daughter is your daughter for life
your sons a son til he gets a wife as the phrase goes

excluding her is not kind and you could push him not just her way - think about this

Assuming that there's nothing you haven't told us, my advice would be to ask your daughter in law if she'd mind your having breakfast with your son one day, just the two of you. Spell it out to her as you have to us. Now that he''s a fully-functioning adult, with a wife you like a lot, you'd enjoy some mum/son time together- perhaps thinking back to when he was little and you wondered what he would turn out like! It sounds a good idea to me. You obviously love him dearly.

It’s an unreasonable expectation as he is married. Can’t you just arrange to see him when she is at work, then you don’t have to ask to exclude her

I would leave it open, invite them both, but also say you wont be offended if she wanted time on her own.
I think you have to accept they come as a package.

This is rather batshit. Are you OK never seeing your kids on their own ever again once they are married? You'd want your son or daughter in law there for every conversation you have with your children? You'd never want to meet up just you and your daughter for lunch, or you and your son to watch a play?

I can’t imagine why anyone would mind their partner spending 1-1 time with a parent, especially in the context of a multiple day visit. Both DP and I spend time separately with our mothers- we have separate relationships as well as joint ones. Unfortunately my dad never sees me a lone and insists on his wife always being present. She’s nice enough but it just leads to polite chit chat rather than a proper conversation.

I would explain it to your son and see what he thinks, making it clear why and that it’s not a rejection of his partner

When I visit my eldest son and his fiancé, I assume that I'll be spending time with both of them. I don't look for opportunities to engineer time alone with him! She is a lovely young woman and my future daughter in law and I enjoy her company very much. If I were you, I'd embrace spending time with them as a couple and include her in all of your plans. She is integral to your son's happiness. She is the person he's chosen to spend his life with!

Yes, some of these posts are bizarre to me.

If you posted about girls' night and someone inviting another friend then people rightly comment about it changing the dynamic.

Well, the very first dynamic of your life is your immediate family.

It's nice to revisit that sometimes. It's not about excluding people - it's about enjoying the variety. And it sounds like the wife is very happy with it anyway! I know I would be. Sadly my ILs think you need to be joined at the hip on family holidays.

OP - I'd just be upfront with him and say, "we'd love to catch up with you by yourself at some point - is there a time (wife) is busy?"

I can't say I've thought about it.
When ds married dil, she became a family member.
When I married dh, I became a family member.

MIL and FIL visited three or four times a year. They lived 200 odd miles away. They stayed with us; DH went to work, they enjoyed the dc and took them to the park and I got some me time. Occasionally I arranged to go out with friends because they could babysit and DH had a cpl of hoirs alone with them. Similarly I went to the supermarket on a Saturday and left them and DH to it.

Now MIL and my mum are very elderly, they both live a distance away and caring is involved. This weekend dh is going to his mum and I'm going to mine.

DS and DIL live abroad. We do not stay with them we stay at an hotel. I remember the exhaustion when MIL and FIL visited.

It all just happened naturally.

I found the lunch thread a bit odd bit mainly because MIL would nevwr have arsed herself to do a nine hour return trip to meet her son. I reckon there's a diagnosis of some sort at stake or the DH is deeply unhappy about something and wants to speak to his mum.

my advice would be to ask your daughter in law if she'd mind your having breakfast with your son one day, just the two of you. Spell it out to her as you have to us.

Now that he''s a fully-functioning adult,....

As a fully functioning adult, he doesn't need permission from anyone else to spend time with anyone he chooses.

I think you have to accept they come as a package.

They never do anything independently?

Why do you want to see an adult child on his own

Because he's her son and, quite naturally, they have a bond that she doesn't share with her DIL. I like DD's DP but I will always want time alone with my DD. We love to go to the cinema and then for a meal and talk or meet up for a coffee and talk. Her dad (my DH) feels the same.

I'd just say "DS - can we have breakfast one morning, just the two of us." His wife won't have a problem unless she's a loony MN DIL.

Yeah you don’t. My own MIL does this. Tries to sneakily arrange dates with my husband on her own. But expects him to dump the kids on me and for me to do all the running round with them and get them to their clubs etc so she can have a lunch date.
My own mum would never do this. If she happens to be at work or busy then fine. But you don’t exclude her and your son won’t thank you for it either. My husband always tells his mum no because thankfully he’s got my back over hers. Invite her and hope she declines. If she doesn’t you graciously include her unless you want to end up on bad terms

I don’t think this is odd at all. I live very close to my DS and DIL, so it’s not a big effort to meet up, but I do see each of them separately as well as meeting up together.