Islamophobia becoming normalised in the media

[nomas]

Genuinely shocked by this headline on MSN.com today (UK site).

The title is

"Muslim convert explains why UK is 'best' as she boasts 'everything is free'"

No one seems to blink an eye at this blatant Islamophobia anymore.

Substitute Muslim for any other minority and people would be shocked for example:

• "Jewish convert explains why UK is 'best' as she boasts 'everything is free'"
• "Black person explains why UK is 'best' as she boasts 'everything is free'"
• "Christian convert explains why UK is 'best' as she boasts 'everything is free'"

Muslim convert explains why UK is 'best' as she boasts 'everything is free'

The way I see it is that Islam is inherently a peaceful religion just like Christianity is inherently a peaceful religion.

Most people who follow and practice a religion do so with the best of intentions and in good faith and to find peace and meaning in their own lives.

Are there Muslims who intentionally misinterpret the teachings of the Qu'ran for to nefarious ends? Yes. Do those people deserve criticism? Yes.

But there are equally Christians who Intentionally misinterpret the teachings of the Bible (some of which are in direct conflict with each other) for their own nefarious ends. Yes (you only need to look at what is happening in America right now to see that). Do those people deserve criticism? Yes.

But we don't say that all Christians are bad because of the actions of some Christian fundamentalists.

And so not all Muslims are bad because of the actions of some.

What is a "nause"?

I just think religion has caused alot of trouble for a long long time, people not getting along with each other because of their beliefs, to me it doesn’t make sense.

I’ll start saving stuff from now on when I see it, so when I’m accused of bullshitting I can back it up.

I did Google it.

I am either -

• A Swedish electronic and house music production duo and DJ act.

• Or an annoying person who annoys others.

😆😆

I think freedom of speech means exactly that one can disparage Islam or any other religion or belief. It doesn't mean anything else, of course.

Sorry but I don’t like Islam, I’ll say it truthfully, I think it’s an awful religion based on the man being superior and women are oppressed.

I think I'd research that if I were you.

It's ok, you can just Google 'how are women regarded in Islam?' And it'll give you a comprehensive overview. (I tried it for you.)

Most Muslims live by that. Not what you see on the news and SM.

There are indeed extremists in most religions, and I don't like those either. But I don't think they are the majority in any religion, and I'm not sure that banning all religions to solve the problem of extremism is fair or proportionate, when that would mean taking away something that is a source of comfort and meaning to so many other people.

As an atheist, I value being free to believe what I believe. And I value that same freedom for people who have different beliefs to my own - they should be free to believe what they believe.

I don't necessarily disagree with you that many religions started as a form of control, threatening people with God's wrath or eternal damnation etc if they don't behave in certain ways. I don't like that approach at all. My mother grew up with a very "fire and brimstone" version of Catholicism and I think it was very damaging. But at the same time, I don't think those models are representative of all religious thinking, and there are many much more moderate people - and institutions - which interpret things quite differently.

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience in the area where you lived previously, but I don't think it's valid to extrapolate from those experiences to make assumptions about Islam as a faith or all Muslims. I've known lots of Muslims over the years, both here in the UK and when I lived for a while in a predominantly Muslim country. There have been some that I really didn't like. But equally, there have been some wonderful people who have become dear friends.

I'm not saying that religious extremism isn't an issue. Of course it is. If we look at what's happening in Afghanistan, for instance, it is utterly abhorrent - but all of my Muslim friends think that as well, and it doesn't represent their interpretation of their religion in the slightest. And yes, there will be people who think that terrorist atrocities are ok or even desirable - but again, such views are as abhorrent and incomprehensible to most Muslims as they are to me. Just as very extreme Christian fundamentalist views are abhorrent and incomprehensible to most Christians.

Personally, I don't think banning religion is the answer. Instead, we need to try to understand why people get radicalised and adopt those extreme views, and then we need to tackle the root causes of that.

There are valid reasons to question a religion. It’s not good for women and girls in some cases. It can bring conflict.

Great post.

You can no more judge all Muslims by the actions of some than you can judge all Christians by what is happening in America with some states calling for the death penalty for women who cause 'the death of a child' at any point from fertilisation onwards (so that would include anyone with an IUD) and quoting the Bible in justification.

I think some posters are being deliberately obtuse with their fake naivety. You’re not wrong in what you’ve said and plenty of people would agree with you. Some people are focusing on semantics and using it as a bat to whack you but take no heed. X

Just to add there are plenty of examples I’ve seen myself that absolutely prove your point but as if we’ve got enough time to go through different threads.

I understand that being autistic might add an additional layer of confusion and perhaps cause you to feel less confident.

I think my own confidence comes from knowing that I have taken the time to really understand what racism and prejudice actually is, to think about it, and to learn about the various different ways in which it can be expressed. And because I have a clear idea of what it is, I'm pretty confident that I can express my views without being accused of inadvertently straying into that territory. But if someone did ever accuse me of saying something racist, I'm also confident enough of my own motivations to be able to reflect honestly on that feedback to determine whether I might have inadvertently said something that wasn't actually fair, and whether there might be anything that I could learn from that.

If I call out racist views in other people, then it is never because I want to shut down views that don't accord with my own. It is because I genuinely think they are being racist. If they want to actually engage with what I'm saying and understand why I think they're being racist, then I'll happily explain, and I'll listen if they want to explain why they don't agree. But if they choose to just dismiss the feedback, then they will typically perceive that they are being called racist for no good reason and I will typically conclude that they just don't give a shit.

I respect your view. And thank you for not jumping on making me feel stupid but talking to me with an open mind, you’ve given a valid point.

The thing is, claiming that you've seen loads of examples without being able to provide a single one doesn't really get us anywhere.

It's a bit like all of the posters who claim that "we are not allowed to talk about immigration" when people are constantly talking about it all the time.

There seems to have been a narrative that has arisen that claims that people will automatically be called racist if they talk about immigration or Islam or whatever. I genuinely haven't seen that happen in reality.

What I have seen is posters being called out for racist posts who perhaps don't really understand why their posts are being called racist because they might have a very limited understanding of what racism is and how it can present. But that isn't the same thing.

Thank you for actually engaging. I appreciate it.

What a really respectful exchange of views. If only MN was more like this!

As I say, I absolutely do understand what the poster is talking about and have seen plenty of examples. I’m sure if you really tried to fine them especially on certain topics you would. Next time I see an example I will @ you, though I tend to stay off those threads in general.

• *51% of families in the UK received a type of state support, such as the State Pension or Child Benefit, in the 3 years to March 2021
• white British families were the most likely to receive state support, and families from the Chinese ethnic group were the least likely to
• white British families (51%) were the most likely to receive non-income related benefits, such as the State Pension
• families from the Bangladeshi and black ethnic groups (both 24%) were the most likely to receive income-related benefits, such as help with the cost of housing*

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/work-pay-and-benefits/benefits/state-support/latest/

Please do. I'm genuinely interested.

As someone who cares about tackling racism and prejudice (including Islamophobia, which is what this thread is about, but not limited to that), I don't think it's at all helpful for terms like racism and Islamophobia to be bandied around when there is no actual evidence of racism or Islamophobia. Quite the contrary, in fact - such misuse of the terms risks rendering them meaningless.

But like I said, I haven't really seen that happening. What I suspect does happen quite a bit is that those who are accused of being racist or Islamophobic etc don't necessarily understand the reasons why they are being described in such terms because they haven't necessarily spent much time trying to learn about the issues. And others reading the threads may not understand either.

This thread has been helpful for me in many ways. I think perhaps I am sometimes guilty of assuming that something which seems blatantly obvious to me is equally obvious to people who might not have spent much time thinking about the same things. So I will try going forward to explain things a bit more. People might still disagree with my interpretation, or they might not be open-minded enough to engage with it, but I can at least try to make it a bit clearer as to where I'm coming from.

Sorry to ask but have not got my statistics brain on today because got up at 3.30am to take adult son to airport

Are those percentage from raw data or percentage adjusted for population of group named?

Adjusted

Thank you

You're right.

Religion has caused a lot of trouble for a long time for a lot of people.

Personally, I'm not religous and I don't believe that God spoke to Moses from a burning bush on Mount Sinai any more than I believe Allah spoke the Qu'ran to Muhammad through the Angel Gabriel.

Religion serves to maintain order and guide its followers on a righteous path through life and to provide comfort in difficult times etc.

How you practice it depends on how you choose to interpet it. But no religion is inherently bad.

I don't think it's a valid comparison. The Jewish population have been in the UK for a longer time and have assimilated at different rates and in different ways to the Muslim population. Plus the Jewish faith doesn’t have a proselytising bent.

So can they and the state of Israel be criticised?