You can't tell me off, you're not my mum

[Vegetablespringrolls]

Ds5 is 12, autistic and with the emotional development of a toddler, although he is cognitively able. He's also going through puberty so has those hormones going on too.

Recently if my MIL or FIL tells him off he will tell them they shouldn't be telling him off when I or his dad are there. And to be fair he is right. But mil and fil are moaning that he is being rude to them. Which he technically is.

I don't know what to do about it. Unfortunately inlaws go to our church and are our landlords so we can't go no contact. I've told them repeatedly not to tell him off when me and his dad are present but they say we aren't strict enough with him.

Read the whole lot, including OPs updates.

It sounds like the Grandparents that are the issue.
THEY are being rude, by shouting at their autistic Grandson because they are not understanding his needs/that it takes him longer to process information.

I definitely think you have an IL issue here, OP, they sound problematic.

What's your husbands stance in all this?
Although, given that he was raised in this dynamic, I'm sure he won't see how unhealthy it is.

I’m sure he won’t be the only kid told off by adults for not performing correctly in church. It’s not the end of the world.

It’s part of the intergenerational tale-as-old-as-time. There is even footage of the late queen tapping a uniformed William sternly on the shoulder when they were standing on the palace balcony and he’d leaned down to point something out to one of his kids. She wanted him to stand upright and act formally.

Old people can be notoriously grumpy and sticklers for tradition. Young people can, and do just put up with it, as part of learning how to tolerate hanging out with their older relatives. Relationships aren’t always perfect but being a tiger mum about this isn’t the answer. Let him deal with it. He isn’t to be rude, but he’s old enough to learn how to absorb it gracefully now. A valuable life skill for him.

That is different to opening post.

No I would be unhappy if I was there and they did that but I'd be saying that to them at the time - and also likely correcting DS if he was misbehaving first.

If he's allowed to do things then I'd say excuse me - he's allowed to do that and stepping in before he said something that could be considered rude.

If you are there - parent and step in first either with IL or DS - and tell them you are the parent and yes I did have to do that with family.

This. You may subscribe to the idea that telling off is only for you and your dh but the world doesn't have to agree with that.
Obviously if they are telling him off for things that behaviour you think is fine then you'll have to intervene.

Non contact? jeez don't play with people's lives including your childs.

This information should have been in your original post. The responses you would have got would then mostly have been quite different. We aren't psychic. In these examples I think your in-laws are overstepping. I see nothing wrong with reading a book in a boring church service and singing only hymns you know well and like. I'd be the same if forced to go and I am 60. He's not disrupting the service doing this in any way. So I wouldn't see it as a hill to die on and would tell in-laws that.

When we were children and being taken to church my Dad used to fill his pockets with sweets or nuts, load them into a small toy lorry and wheel it (quietly) along the book rest on the pew to keep us quiet and occupied. So I doubt your in-laws would have been very impressed with us. It worked though.

You can tell DS that of course people other than you and his Dad can tell him off if he needs it. Like teachers, police, other parents as needed, grandparents ..... You can also set boundaries with your in-laws.

Your lives do seem very intertwined with your in-laws and to me it does sound like this is giving them far too much control, which they are lording over you. I can't believe that they are your landlords too and I really couldn't think of anything worse to be honest!! Make a break. Move to your own place (rented if necessary) and set your own boundaries.

Do any of you actually want to go to church? Why do you have to? Why is DS being forced to go to church when he clearly finds it a bore (which it is)? Provided that he wasn't going to spend his time gaming etc. I wouldn't be forcing him to go and he could make up his own mind. He could spend his time reading if he wanted, keeping up with his school work, visiting his friends. I wouldn't give a shit what the in-laws thought. They could waste their energy shouting as much as they wanted to on that and it would make no difference to me at all.

I think you need to be able to set your own rules. It's a creating boundaries situation, not a no contact one as far as I can see.

Well you either believe it takes a village or you don't, I guess

Exactly what I was going to say. Many people who post think it takes a village only when they want some childcare. Not necessarily OP but generally.

YANBU. He has your permission to read a book in church and no one has to sing all the hymns/songs, adult or child. Seems like grandparents are focused on appearances and how it reflects on them, rather than your child being comfortable? My Autistic teenager wears headphones in church, doodles and may even be on her phone at times. She still loves God and wants to be there (and is welcome). My youngest doesn't always want to be there but he has to come if we're going so we try to make it fun for him with crafts and activities.

If DS says it again I would clarify to in-laws that he's right, they can't tell him off for things you have given permission for. Or for needing extra time to process requests.

If they can't show you respect there are other churches, and presumably other houses if it came to that.

Bit of a MASSIVE leap to be going NC isnt it? Pretty normal for grandparents to tell off.

ETA - have now seen about the book in church etc. Have a conversation with them, tell them expressly that you allow this and he is not to be told off.

It does sound like your inlaws are being very pig headed and have decided that your ds is just naughty and not autistic. None of the things you listed that they have told him off for sound worthy of telling off and it sounds like you have tried very hard to explain how he needs processing time but it's fallen on deaf ears. So, your inlaws arw the problem. However, you live in their house so don't want to rock the boat. I personally woul start looking for somewhere else to live and stop subjecting my autistic child to church.

This. If they are following YOUR rules and using the same kind of correction that you are, then that's ok and he needs to understand this.....you sort of hint though that they think that you are not strict enough and are maybe going further than you would and that IMO does need addressing.

In general I do think that grandparents/ adults should tell a child off if what they are doing is wrong or unsafe, especially if their parent isn’t there.
those examples you have given though I wouldn’t be happy as they sound like reasonable adjustments for his autism in light of his probable black and white thinking.

I think your dh should speak to his parents and explain that he is allowed to read at church (it’s boring), he can sing when he wants (what’s the big deal) and that if either of his parents are there then they will do the parenting.

if the relationship is so fragile that you’re worried about losing your home then I’d try and stand on your own two feet so that you owe them nothing.

I have grandchildren and also look after my nephew's children. I am allowed to tell them off. Years ago when DSIL and I had an agreement that either could administer discipline if necessary when we were caring for the children together. Never had a problem.

I work with autistic children but the whole scenario has me bewildered. My thoughts though .....

I do agree that the child should be told that people other than parents can tell him off.

The list of misdemeanors listed by the OP verge on the hilarious. How can you tell a child off for not singing certain hymns??? Time to start worshipping in a different church or at a different service I think. Tell GPs you have found one that is less formal and suits your son more.

The idea of processing time is certainly sound. OP are you staying with him to follow through or are you telling him and then going away and letting him comply in his own time? If it is the latter I get why GPs are critical - even though they should not be interfering.

Why do you need to discuss bath time in front of GPs???

So in general I think OP that you could change some of your actions in front of GPs to avoid conflict, but do not let your child be cheeky to his GPs because that is wrong.

If you're right there, then you should be stepping in before your son even has to say anything, saying "now, MIL/FIL, X is allowed to do that," or "It's fine MIL/FIL, I don't need any help to handle this."

Your son shouldn't be rude - if they tell him off, he just needs to turn to you or your DH, and say "Mum/Dad?" asking for you to step in if you haven't already.

How are they telling him off?

Taking the book in church example it is one thing to gently say
“come on now James, please put the book away during the service”
and another to angrily whisper
“you’re being horribly disrespectful James, put the book away this instant, I’m ashamed of you”

(James of course being a randomly selected name)

They're nagging at him for things that don't concern them and they're interfering in your conversations with him. He is right. They're undermining you which doesn't help kids behaviour at all. Although I'd teach him a better way to say it. "My mum said it's ok" "me and mum have talked about it already" "I'm following my mum's rules" although if I were you I'd be replying to them for him telling them you've said he's allowed to do that.

Well a small child should equally not be being rude to another adult telling them off.

explain to your DC that they CAN tell him
off. You sound like you’re making unnecessary excuses for him.

They are adults who care about him and feel a duty of care towards him and are part of his day to day life. They absolutely CAN tell him off, and you should be supporting them. He mouths off because he thinks you'll back him up, you need to be backing them up.

I don't limit expectations and discipline to just my own children, if their cousins are friends are in my home or in my care I'm 100% telling them off if they misbehave.

You need to decide if you agree with him in which case you need to tell them hes right, let us handle it. Then address the behaviour yourself

Or, if you agree with them you tell him. They are to be respected and listened to grandma and grandad they absolutely can tell you off

He's not a small child. He's 12.

He's being forced to go to church. He manages that by reading his book quietly and just joining in certain hymns. Which the grandparents shout at him for. It doesn't seem like disruptive behaviour to me.

He obviously needs to be told so what is your problem? Parents like you are why children think they can do as they please in public and other adults, teachers and the Police aren't allowed to tell them off.

This! Ridiculous to go no-contact over such a small issue

I think you are fundamentally wrong and making life more difficult for your son. Any caring adult who happens to be present when he does something he shouldn't (because it's cruel, or careless, or dangerous, or whatever) can and should tell him off. You really need to widen the circle of people he can accept criticism from.

why is he being forced to go to church ? Perhaps you should stop things which you know lead to trouble ?

Your DH needs to have firm words with his DP.

Mine actually put his hand palm up in his mother’s face to make her step back when she was trying to tell our DS off when he was 8 when we were standing right there and dealing with it. She’d done it the day before and I made it clear that he needed to raise it. He obviously hadn’t done so that evening but he was on it very quickly the next day.

In the examples the OP gives the PIL are out if order. In my church no one worries if people do or don’t sing certain hymns or whether an autistic child reads during the service.