Who is English?

[mids2019]

I see reform have started a debate about the meaning of being English which has stirred a few feathers. To my mind anyone who is born in the country is English..

I would say moving to a country does not necessarily make you a national of a country e.g. if I moved the South of Spain as a retired I don't know if could reasonably call my self Spanish but children of English people definitely could.

One thing that is worth debate is how you frame heritage and is this important? For instance would 2nd.generation immigrants from India would want to be referred as English but if Indian oriigin? Is there an actual desire for people of foreign heritage to maintain a part of their identity connected to their country of family origin for cultural reason?

“I think unless we get a consensus on what Englishness means”
According to many on here it’s eating fish and chips and pies, visiting quaint villages and cathedrals, loving the white cliffs of Dover and participating in Morris dancing! And now supporting your country in the event of a war regardless I’m assuming how wrong it is (sounds a bit like the Norman Tebbit test!
That’s how nebulous a concept it is.

But when you travel somewhere do you think yes this is all the same?

I was born in England to English parents and moved to Wales when I was a very small baby. I have lived in Cornwall for 26 years.

Don't know what I am really apart from British. I certainly don't feel particularly English. Don't care really.

I do think that, for a lot of people, it's about skin colour.

White people who speak with an English accent are typically assumed to be "English", even if their heritage had nothing to do with England. Their heritage isn't even questioned, unless they have a particularly "foreign-sounding" name.

The same assumptions are not made by people who are not white.

This whole debate is just another way of people expressing their racism.

I mean if you are not white does your ancestry have any ties you the European continent? Mine doesn't.

But your ethnicity doesn't define you as a morally good or bad person. At all. And your nationality is where you consider home.

I was born in another European country but in a British jurisdiction. Moved to Scotland as one parent is Scottish. Other parent was born in Ireland. I have lived the vast majority my life in England but I consider myself British first and a European next. It’s not straightforward.

According to wiki Fiona Bruce was born in Singapore (as a state of Malaysia) in 1964 to Scottish & English parents. Despite her birthplace I suspect she ticks white british on forms, Suella should have asked her.

Millions of people don’t even know their ethnicity so it would be impossible to define themselves by something they’re unaware of. Unless they’ve had a DNA test or taken up an interest in genealogy, most people wouldn’t have a clue about their heritage further back than their great grandparents.

I’m sure a lot of Tommy Robinson supporters assume they’re of ‘good English stock’, merely because they’re white.

umm I hate to break it to you but those are stories and not real..... or are you joking?

Culture is where customs, practices, values, and things like food, clothing, religion that commonly identify one group of people from another. The customs and practices can be shaped by history, geography, climate even.
British is all encompassing to describe all that becomes the UK.
But within that you have cultural, historic, geographic differences and peoples who identify very separately. Hence Scotland, Wales, NI. Cornwall feels it also is identifiably separate.

I think everyone I meet is different; my work colleagues, my friends, people I meet if I travel, my Chinese friends living in Singapore , people who were brought up in similar environments to me. That’s what makes the human race so interesting. God it would be so boring if everyone born in England had the same values and likes, we can’t all like Morris dancing and pies.
Im unconvinced in the 21 st century unless you’re living under a very large rock that any one nationality has a particular culture that is entirely unique to them alone. Most people are a mixture of lots of different ideas and beliefs IME all nationalities have more in common than things that are different.

We all know this is about colour.

Morris dancing. Why do these threads always go back to Morris dancing? It’s bizarre.

So is everywhere you go similarly mixed, you wouldn’t know if you were in India, China or Brazil

Its only in the last few decades its become harder to explain what being "english" is as there have been more immigrants this century than the last 1500 years. So most people here were English. Now millions of people have immigrated here this century from other countries and their children and grandchildren have remained here. So its become harder to define what English is.

Many other countries have immigrants from other countries who maintain their original ethnic description through generations. Here Im sure plenty of multi generation immigrants are happy to be described as having non English ethnicity. Why not? Why would they worry about it? I don't worry about my non English half. If both my parents were non English rather than only one I would be 100% non English rather than 50%.

Actually most English people don't know the difference between England and Britain and use both terms as one and the same. England games Union flags instead of St George, a national anthem that is British not English. They talk about Queen of England. No such thing. So there is an even more ignorant level of what is English/British

As far as I am concerned in your are born in England you are English and a British citizen.

Reform started this nonsense because deep down they believe only white people can be English and should live in this country, which is purposely done to appeal to their voters and divide people. That's what it is about.

All these idiots bleating about how proud they are of their englishness conveniently forget that they are likely to be a combination of Norman, German, Viking and Celt DNA (meaning some of their ancestors will have come in small boats too...) and not as they seem to believe just one mythical, single 'English' DNA.

As things stand, there is no legal benefit or drawback to being "English"; it's not a status that confers any responsibilities or privileges. Therefore I'd say that British citizens who (1) were born and/or raised in England (2) and/or have an English parent and/or (3) choose to live in England long term are all "English" if they wish to be - as well as probably some specific situations where someone has a strong, material connection to England but don't fit these categories. I don't see much point in policing it.

Of course you know but if you do go to these places you’ll see that their cultures and views on the world have been heavily influenced by other countries. I went to Borneo even in fairly remote villages you couldn’t miss it. I learnt a lot about their way of life and values but I heard American colloquialism, saw designer label clothes, people talked about US TV shows. I ate lunch in a remote village and burger and chips was on the menu that’s what most people who were Bornean were eating there, in a hotel in the middle of the rain forest meatballs and spaghetti were being served, In the one of the main cities there was a Costa and in a hotel I had coffee in they were serving French pastries. Globalisation has changed everyone’s culture.

Exactly this.

I assume Reform is not going to object to Farage's kids calling themselves English although they are half German and have a French-sounding surname...

Thanks. And a slight correction to my post, which should have read that the same assumptions are not made about people who are not white.

But hopefully most people knew what I meant!

Oh that’s interesting! Thank you. My Cornish line moved to Wales 100 years ago though.. I guess they still fit in the recognised minority then.

Yes various things are picked up and shared but you do recognise you know where you are. Meaning there’s difference still. And England too has a culture, it’s not the only place in the world without one.

But as yet nobody on here has been able to satisfactorily define it. So what is it? This is a genuine question.
I could see what the differences between me and people living in Borneo were (I don’t like birds nest soup for a start😁) but also our many similarities. I stopped over in Singapore to a large extent that been have been any global city in the world. Ditto if I’m doing my shopping in E Leclerk in the Dordorgne. Yes there are some things that are uniquely French but I also see things that I could buy in Tesco in the UK or Walmart in the US.

Lots of people who are not white may have white parentage/ancestry from one parent, and be born and brought up here.