Should school staff have to earn a pupil's respect before expecting politeness?

[Sweetchillysource]

Hi everyone

I am absolutely raging about a situation that happened at work last week. I am a secondary school teacher. I have recently taken over a year 7 tutor group. One of the boys in my form is behaving very poorly; not only towards me but around school in general. I am an experienced teacher so I’m not phased by this however I invited his mum in for a meeting last week to discuss my concerns, and to try and nip it in the bud.

During the meeting his mom made the comment that he was behaving poorly as the staff had not yet “earned his respect”. I can’t accept this. I explained that I appreciate that he’s new to the school and therefore he’s still in the process of establishing relationships with staff, however this does not mean that he could behave poorly and speak to staff rudely. His mum wasn’t happy with me saying this and stormed out. Later that day she logged a formal complaint.

My headteacher has now spoken with me and suggested that my comment about staff not having to earn this hisrespect was not appropriate. I refuse to accept that and maintain that this is a ridiculous expectation,

Surely the expectation is that we’re all polite and respectful towards each other when we first meet each other as opposed to having to wait until we’ve earned each other’s respect?? My headteacher wants me to call her and apologise but I am refusing to do that.

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

Respect is a given as far as I am concerned but it can very definitely be lost.

Even if she didn't like respect as a word then surely manners are expected or basic consideration of others in our environment both phrases that would convey the expectations of the school. Which I am guessing has a behaviour agreement that is effectively agreed to by joining the school.

What ever word or phrases she chooses to like or dislike the child is causing problems for others, how is he earning respect?
I think your head is opening themselves to a world of hurt if they accept this complaint.

You are most definitely right here. Shocking.

I don’t understand the whole meaning of earning respect. Surely people should just be respectful towards each other as standard, respect can be lost but it shouldn’t have to be earned initially.

IMO it is. There are plenty of people I have zero respect for but I'm polite to them if I can't avoid them, because it's expected.

And, frankly, a child that's there to be educated needs to be taught that by their parent.

I think respect is a difficult term. When you say I expect you to treat me/other teachers with respect, some people mean it/hear it as I expect you to demonstrate you are subordinate to me or I expect you to show reverence to me. I think to say I expect to be treated politely is much better and doesn’t get peoples backs up. Very few people take issue with that.

The situation is obviously stupid, and you were probably going to have an issue with this family either way, but I probably would talk to them, if not to apologise to subtly clarify your position and get mum on side, I imagine you’ll have a much easier time if you do.
FWIW I would always be polite to people, but I don’t know if I would ‘respect’ them, I certainly would never just ‘respect’ someone upon meeting them. I’m also not really fussed if my children ‘respect’ their teachers, as long as they are ‘respectful’ in the way they act. This means so many different things to so many different people though. I just think it’s such a loaded term that leaves so much unclear that I would avoid it.

YANBU; the mother sounds like scum and your headteacher completely ineffectual. Do not apologise.

Very well put.

I ‘find’ it because I have experienced it. Multiple times, in multiple settings.

That is absolutely mad and I'd be looking for a new job, completely crap of the headteacher. I'm sure the other pupils putting up with this kid's behaviour and having their learning disrupted don't agree. How ridiculous!

I agree with OP and his mum is doing her ds no favours with this attitude

Yanbu. And it’s always the absolute maggots who demand ‘respect’

Imagine it in other areas of life - I refuse to show any basic manners or decency to anyone I don't know well: waiters, colleagues, police officers..

My DC comes home a lot saying teachers shout and talk quite bluntly and rudely with no please or thank yous (yet jump on any child who forgets to say it themselves). I don’t think my DC is perfect, but they are always respectful, well behaved and wouldn’t dream of answering back. It pisses me off that some teachers think that it is acceptable to talk to down to kids like that for no reason other than being on some kind of power trip or having a shit day. I don’t shout at my DC, so why some teachers think it’s ok for them to really pisses me off.

We're 3 weeks into term. I would expect teachers to have earned pupils' respect by now by teaching reasonably competently, keeping control of the class, being on time etc. Nothing exceptional, just competence. Of course this is important for a functioning school system. And pupils will have earned teachers' respect by doing their best, polite behaviour, being on time wherever possible etc. I'm sure you could word an apology in this sort of way if you absolutely have to while still standing your ground about the rudeness.

But the respect thing is a red herring because it's staggeringly unlikely that that's why the boy is behaving like this. The Mum probably just felt defensive. You need to understand his background, any SEN etc, what information came through from primary school etc.

Does a pupil have to earn respect from his teachers before he can expect fair treatment and politeness? Your Head Teacher is a dangerous fool and the parent if this entitled pupil is setting him up for a lifetime of disappointment and under achievement. J despair that no one can call out a fool these days.

Of course you should stand your ground. Teaching is not a popularity contest and you are not there to be the pupils " friend". You are an adult, in the same way as an employee has a line manager. You don't have to be friends to have a respectful working relationship. Respect is not the same as good manners, and good manners should be the default position however either party feels about the other.
Schools have a duty to model these sorts of relationships in preparation for the world of work if poor parenting is not modelling this at home.
It's shameful that your Headteacher is so spineless that he would attempt to browbeat a member of his staff into a fake apology rather than grasping the nettle and reading the riot act to this child and parent.

If you as a form tutor can’t set the expectations now. He’s going to be running rings around everyone in years 10/11.

And your Head is an idiot to support their staff on such matters.

Teachers....when you call pupils and parents maggots and dragged up and make it known you do not respect a child or the parents you are making it known that you are playing hardball.

That mother is exactly why today’s young generation are the way they are.

At school, teachers hold a position of authority. They do not have to earn a child’s respect.

I absolutely appalled at her behaviour and it is not wonder her child is the way he is. However I’m shocked at your headteacher’s comment.

Politeness shouldn’t even be something that should be thought about, it is the very basic of social skills.
Good luck to that mum when she’s having to deal with a right little dickhead, though to be fair you reap what you sow, she’s the one that’s taught him this, she’ll have to deal with the consequences.

I work in a support position in a secondary and for some kids there is no respect for me as I am older, female and not a teacher. I always give a request the first time with a please but 50% of the time this is not the case with the students. Some just need reminding but some take massive offense as being asked for politeness and this must come from home. Most are lovely but the 20% who are not make the job a nightmare some days. Especially given how crap the pay is.

Id be getting out of that school. Your headteacher is awful. You are in the right and the parent needs to be shut down immediately. Nobody needs to "earn" respect. You give respect and you get it back. The child's not giving respect - however the teachers will be following the system - they won't be rude. It's not rude to hold someone to account. Ridiculous

YANBU. He is an 11 year old child and needs to respect teachers - in fact all adults.
If his mother were an educated person she would also respect his teachers and encourage him to respect them.
Your headteacher is not much of a leader if she sides with parents against her staff on this issue.

God, who'd be a teacher these days! OP I would give them your notice and speak to your union. I should think you'd have a good case for constructive dismissal.

So, when this child needs anyone knew he's not going to treat them with respect until they've earned it. Bloody madness. Your head teacher has lost the plot. Go to your TU.