‘Privileged’ but not entirely by choice

[clearlysunshine]

Posting here because it’s not something I’d really discuss openly with friends, and I’m very aware that I’m in a privileged position in lots of ways.

DH has a big job which involves a lot of travel. When he’s here, he does what he can around work — he’s usually up and out before the kids and I get up and back around bedtime, but he leaves early one day to take DS to a midweek club and picks DD up from hers once a week.
Grandparents are elderly on both sides, so we don’t have family help. The kids are at an independent school and the logistics are pretty full-on — different finishing times, activities, school events, holidays etc. There always seems to be something.
Before having children I also had a “big” job involving a lot of travel, which I gave up when we had them because realistically there was nobody else to look after them. The difficulty is that my industry is notoriously badly paid despite the level of responsibility, so going back to my old career while paying for the amount of childcare we’d need makes very little financial sense. We can live comfortably on DH’s salary, so there isn’t a financial necessity for me to work either.
Most of the families I know where both parents have demanding full-time careers either have a nanny or very involved grandparents, neither of which we have.

I suppose I’m wondering whether anyone else has found themselves in a similar position? I sometimes feel quite conflicted about having given up a career I worked hard for, while at the same time I can’t quite see how two big careers actually work with children unless you have significant help. I’d be interested to hear how others in a similar situation have navigated it.

I found the more senior my DH got the easier it was for some flexibility with working and picking and choosing when to travel when it suited me the best.

You chose to go into a sector that doesn't pay well. Presumably that would mean if you were single you'd have a worse quality of life or would need to go into a different field of work? So it seems inevitable that if your husband earns more and you don't need to work then you wouldn't.
It's nothing to be ashamed of.

You could do volunteering or something just to feel useful but there's no obligation. It's only to keep yourself happy and if you're happy just pottering about then that's cool.

I never had much of a career but saw my dad get totally burned out by his 'big' job. It was well paid but he was miserable doing it. Happiness is the most important thing. As long as you can actually house and feed yourself obviously.

This is really common among my friends, OP and I completely understand where you are coming from. There comes a point where it is entirely clear that the most valuable contribution you can make to everyone else is not to work outside the home- you don't need the money, the household needs someone who is reliably there (including overnight) and who can manage/direct things fully, and everyone's quality of life (except possibly the SAHP) is hugely improved.

The risks are obvious- that you come to realise that you gave up too much for everyone else's benefit, you feel unfulfilled, or potentially that you divorce down the line and, while decently provisioned with assets, find your earning potential is massively reduced, meaning you end up with a much lower quality of life than your husband. (Hopefully this won't be you- it will be someone though.) I think there is also a different sort of stress for the working partner- they no longer have the stress of combining work and family commitments but do have the stress that comes from being sole breadwinner.

A lot of my friends have ended up in completely different careers- often starting a business or else getting very seriously into charitable volunteering (running a foodbank, not just helping out)- or else have gone back to uni and pursued interests in languages, creative writing etc. One is now a classically trained chef (who uses her skills just to cook amazing food for her family and friends). Some of these changes have led to brilliant, fulfilling new careers, but I think everybody has had periods of doubt and frustration as well.

One thing to consider is how your life will look once your children are adults. This might be fine if you have enough assets that your husband can retire or semi-retire at this point- you can have a lovely time together with minimal obligations. If he is not going to be in that situation or isn't the sort to retire early, it can be quite a lonely time for the wife.

I would encourage you to think about what a fulfilling life would look like to you, and how you could build that from the bottom up. There are many more options than just your old job versus your new life. This may require you to challenge your own thinking quite significantly- I think people often get a fixed idea of what success looks like at the start of their careers and then need to think about whether that model of success is still the right one as they go through life- maybe success is building a family and home + finding meaningful work outside the home, which does not have to look like whatever it was you did before. Or you may find that it does, in which case that realisation will let you know what you have to do. Might be worth talking to a therapist about all this.

My husband and I both have "big jobs", and work full time with no family help. It's a huge juggle and involves fairly odd hours of work sometimes, but we make it work. Financially and for my own self-esteem and independence, I couldn't give up work.

Similar here.
Add in very poorly baby, constant hospital appointments and admissions, dh getting promotions which meant more long haul travel, a period of home schooling, surprise 2nd baby (multiple mc so didn't seem likely at all), then a devastating bereavement, then 12 years as a carer for a parent...life rarely goes how you think will ime.
No idea what the future will look like but I'm not where I thought I'd be 🤷‍♀️

Thank you for sharing this and I’m sorry to read what you’ve dealt with, it’s a lot.

I can completely empathise with your situation. I didn’t want to out myself by going into too much detail but we’ve also had signicant loss and illness in our family and as well as being there for my kids, I’ve been there for other family members too. So in many ways being around has been an absolute blessing these last few years but perhaps now I’m starting to think about my own fulfilment and what that looks like. Kids are too young to walk to school or get on a bus at the moment but yes that will change in years to come!

Signing in, same position here. DC now secondary age.

Those saying “just use a nanny” are missing the fact that nannies work limited hours. Longer than nursery for sure but still not long enough to cover overnight travel or the insanely long hours of some City jobs plus commute. I had to make a flexible working arrangement when DC was born in order to get back home for our nanny who finished at 7. The flexible working arrangement was that I could leave by 6pm! Usual leave time in my job was more like 8-10pm (and for my DH even later). And even if you could find a nanny who’d do longer hours, who wants their child put to bed every night by a nanny anyway?

Many women in this position choose to get a different job, one that is more compatible with children. I tried this. Unfortunately these jobs are really not the same as the “big jobs” (occasionally there are exceptions where you can do literally the same job but part time, eg medical profession seems to work for this, but rare). They are often less intellectually demanding, don’t involve travel or client facing or creative direction or some other aspect which may well have been what drew you to that career in the first place. Even if it’s the same industry it doesn’t feel the same, at all. And of course these jobs are much less well paid. If your family doesn’t actually need the money due to DH pay, this may lead you to wonder if it’s worth it or whether you may as well not work, have more free time/time to deal with household stuff, and find your interest elsewhere.

My “solution” in the end has been to try to find interesting volunteer roles. There aren’t that many - though to be fair I’m quite fussy. I’m also catching up on the things I couldn’t do much of while working my “big job” - like exercise, cooking, hobbies, maintaining friendships. Parents are ageing and them needing help is just around the corner. Kids are ND so it’s full on when they are home, I value the quiet school hours.

I agree with pp by the way that this is a less “privileged” situation if you didn’t have a choice. I didn’t as DH wouldn’t compromise his career or hours to help me maintain mine - and I’m still resentful about that. I know my position is very very comfortable, but that doesn’t mean it’s what I chose.

Ironically, I suspect a disproportionate % of men with high earning big jobs marry women similar to themselves, who are more likely to be frustrated as a SAHM. Shame really as I’m sure there are lots of women out there who would absolutely love it.

Sorry to hear you've had a tough time, too 💙
I'm older, hopefully wiser!, and totally knackered 😄
This year was supposed to be "better" than last year (which was one of the worst of my life) but it's been stressful so far. I have volunteered for 15 yrars in various tiles, even started some community groups from scratch, but eventually family needs meant I had to step away.
I'm proud of what I've achieved, very glad these groups are still helping people, but I do feel a bit lost and I'm not sure what to do about it.
Currently dealing with some health issues and hoping they are nothing to worry about. Hard to find any joy atm, which worries me.

This was mine and DH’s situation. Unless we had a nanny do bedtime every night we couldn’t both continue in our respective careers and progress, and neither of us wanted to have children that we didn’t see.

Practicalities-wise, he earned 5 times my salary, so even though I was also successful as it was in a low-paid creative industry it made sense for me to be the one that stepped back.

I ended up absolutely loving it (once the DC were at primary school). It did involve a lot of angst on my behalf about lost identity and validation, which was unexpectedly worked through by moving abroad to a country that values family and domestic work a lot more than the U.K.

The assets I have though are completely shared finances, a DH who would support me if I changed my mind and also he genuinely values what SAHPs do. If any of these were not present I doubt I would be so happy.

We reassess things a lot, talk about our family goals and do a lot of soul searching on what is actually possible (with time, budget, what we want for our kids and what that takes from us). Recently I took on some freelance work from my old industry, which isn’t loads of time but has been a nice use of brain).

I wish you luck in deciding what to do, and will also remind you that life is long and nothing lasts forever.

Reading this makes me regret my choices to do a vocational job which is low paid! It seemed right at the time, but now I've hit 40's with children, I read posts like this and think I probably should have taken a different path. I'm wondering now if it's too late to retrain at something to have a big job! Probably is, but everything is just a struggle.

@Catnaaaaap I’m wondering why this thread has made you regret your choice since it’s full of women who had the big job but then couldn’t/didn’t continue it?! I would have thought if anything this thread shows those jobs have issues once you have kids. Unless your OH would have been happy to be a SAHP and support your big job.

I think it’s a problem with how ‘the system’ teaches women/girls it’s immoral to prioritise money/finances in life but not men.

My school - and I’m not that old - explicitly encouraged girls to ‘do what they love’ with an undertone of it being distasteful for women to be motivated by money. Like many of my colleagues in my female-dominated industry, I reached my late twenties and realised the salaries I was in line for did not cover the life I envisaged for myself and my hypothetical family (buying a house etc).

At the boys’ school next door there was the explicit acknowledgment that money brought status and there was no shame in money being a career motivator. My DH said his school actually covered ‘what do you want your life to look like and can you pay for it’ as a factor in decision-making.

I do acknowledge that a teenage me probably would not have listened, and I don’t know if that’s even still the case, but I do think the idea that it’s not very feminine/‘right’ to even consider salary in career choices is a factor in why women dominate many of the ‘low paid creative professions’.

Because a lot of people seem to be ignoring the obvious solution — that you make it every bit as much your partner’s issue as yours. Because it is. Whether he earns more is irrelevant. He is just as much a working parent of children as you. It’s just as much on him to find family-friendly solutions as on the possibly lower-earning parent with the vagina.

You both go PT? You work flexitime on different days, or start and finish at times that facilitate one of you always dropping to childcare and one of you picking up? He moves to a more family friendly job? He becomes a SAHF? I know three men who have done it for extended periods. Have this conversation before you have children. Say ‘I won’t be becoming a SAHM, and I won’t be stepping down. How do we do this? Because otherwise children are off the table.’

I was in a similar position, OP. I didn’t work for a few years after having children and started working part-time once the children were in school. I now work from home permanently in less of a big job (used to be client-facing and now not), even though our children are in secondary. I have a hobby that I’m passionate about and take very seriously, so I’m always grateful that our set up allows me to spend so much time with the children and also pursue my hobby. I get plenty of fulfilment from it, that makes up for any lack of the same from my job.

Your last sentence only works if he's keener than you to have kids, which definitely wasn't the case with me and DH.

Or you could argue it’s sad that men are encouraged to chase money instead of do what they love.

Jobs that arent law/finance still exist and need to exist. And the people who do those jobs should still be allowed to have children.

It is entirely relevant who is the higher earner though, for most people.

The issue is also pension contributions for the person - mostly the mother - who has given up the career. How many of the high earning men pay an equal amount into the pension of the spouse? I’ve stayed working but reduced hours and turned down promotion options and now in my 50s realising how much my pension pot has suffered as a result.

There are metrics other than finances. And one person earning more is no reason for the other person to feel compelled into stepping out of the workforce.

You know what, you’re absolutely right. I’m looking at this through my own lens of realisation that perhaps I undervalued money/salary. I suppose this also ties into capitalism/cost of living/changing circumstances. 20 years before someone working in my industry would still have been able to afford to buy a house in the same city …

Yes, this is how I thought it would work <sigh>. But it didn’t.

How do you make a person get home for bedtime? How do you make them change job to something with more family friendly hours, if they don’t want to?

If your baby’s father is not doing his share due to working long hours, and won’t reduce those hours, then your options are to make your own job and life work around the baby or to divorce. At which point you’re still probably stuck with all the childcare (this kind of guy is not going to do 50/50) and you are worse off in numerous other ways.

We had the conversation before kids. Not in as much detail as we should have. I said I wanted to keep working, he said he was fully supportive. Neither of us realised the realities of childcare vs our crazy working hours. Neither of us expected a baby who was premature and didn’t sleep for years.

I suspect if I’d said “you need to change your job so you can get home for 7 half the time or else kids are off the table” he’d have said “ok no kids then, at least not for a few years till I get more senior”. I’m not sure.

I didn’t say that there are no other considerations, but earnings being “irrelevant” is simply not the case for the majority of families.

So don’t have children, then? I wouldn’t have, had it been incompatible with continuing a career I loved, and/or involving a spouse who thought their higher earnings trumped my work.

I haven’t given up my career, but thanks for the advice anyway. Interesting to know you value your career more than you value your children. The fact remains that different people have different priorities and for many families, earnings are a significant consideration.

Absolutely, different people have different priorities. I would not have had a child if it had involved giving up a career I loved and had worked long and hard for, no. I have both. Which is perfectly possible.

Which is why I view the OP's situation as pitiable rather than 'privileged'.