‘Privileged’ but not entirely by choice

[clearlysunshine]

Posting here because it’s not something I’d really discuss openly with friends, and I’m very aware that I’m in a privileged position in lots of ways.

DH has a big job which involves a lot of travel. When he’s here, he does what he can around work — he’s usually up and out before the kids and I get up and back around bedtime, but he leaves early one day to take DS to a midweek club and picks DD up from hers once a week.
Grandparents are elderly on both sides, so we don’t have family help. The kids are at an independent school and the logistics are pretty full-on — different finishing times, activities, school events, holidays etc. There always seems to be something.
Before having children I also had a “big” job involving a lot of travel, which I gave up when we had them because realistically there was nobody else to look after them. The difficulty is that my industry is notoriously badly paid despite the level of responsibility, so going back to my old career while paying for the amount of childcare we’d need makes very little financial sense. We can live comfortably on DH’s salary, so there isn’t a financial necessity for me to work either.
Most of the families I know where both parents have demanding full-time careers either have a nanny or very involved grandparents, neither of which we have.

I suppose I’m wondering whether anyone else has found themselves in a similar position? I sometimes feel quite conflicted about having given up a career I worked hard for, while at the same time I can’t quite see how two big careers actually work with children unless you have significant help. I’d be interested to hear how others in a similar situation have navigated it.

You could have continued with your career, although most of the extra wages would have gone on childcare, but you chose not to. There must be a reason for that which doesn't just relate to finances.

Either you thought your job wasn't rewarding enough to justify the financial hit or you wanted to be more available to your children. Presumably those reasons still exist.

I am in the opposite position - my DP gave up work (from a high paying job, say 200k a year) and I continued to work. I actually earned slightly less than him when he quite but I am also 10 years younger, I liked my job more and my job was in a traditionally less demanding industry in terms of expected working hours. Neither of our jobs required much travel so we could have both carried on but we decided we wanted one if us to be around more. We now have an almost 3yo and a 5yo. I know he is envious of me sometimes; I work in London and whilst I WFH most of the time, I go to the office once a week and probably stay over every-other week (we live a couple of hours away). I speak to intelligent people and have grown up conversations. I also go to fancy restaurants.

He takes our eldest to school and picks him up, he does some childcare for the youngest although he is in nursery part of the week because we are renovating a property.

I wouldn't trade my life for his but I am also envious at times. Especially of the time and involvement he has in the elder child's life / schooling etc. I don't really have any friends where we live and I'd love to make some friends at the school gates.

I guess the point of being a team is that overall everything is covered but naturally you both miss out on things. It's easy to think the grass is greener.

My concern, in your situation, would be that unless his job changes, you are somewhat 'stuck' in this situation (becoming less employable by the year). That would make me feel quite panic stricken. I think fundamentally I would struggle with my self-worth but I know that is not rational - my OH is not 'worth less' because he is not working and nor are you. I would struggle not to feel that way about myself though. That's obviously my own weird shit though so probably not relevant to your situation.

Do you feel valued. Do you feel like an equal partner in your relationship?

Me! One of my kids is also sen so cant cope with any of these childcare options anyway.
Whenever I feel ‘bad’ I remember that feminism doesnt mean women should be worked to the bone until they die just because. Youve chosen to help raise the children you wanted and use any spare time to do things for YOU. Waaaay more to life. Just make sure you’re ok financially if the rship goes tits up and youre all good.

I also feel like it’s hard in current society where paid work no matter what it is, is seen as more ‘worthy’ than anything else. It’s something that can take a bit of rewiring.

My biggest issue was worrying about what people thought about me. Which is very silly.

i don’t know the answer but you won’t regret all the time you spent with your children.

Being there for them is a good reason to stick with it in the short term - children benefit enormously from having a parent at home when they’re young, so if you can afford it and don’t hate it, then crack on.

But I would 100% make plans to get back out there as soon as your youngest transfers to secondary and they’re all more independent. If you don’t do it then, you might never work again, and it’s not a path I’d recommend to any woman.

Take it from someone who left a well paid ‘big job’, with brilliant prospects, but for lots of reasons was never able to rejoin the workforce : no matter how productively you fill every waking minute, not having paid work and an income robs you of economic independence, professional growth, validation, direction, confidence and self-esteem. You become a kind of invisible non-person, defined only as someone else’s wife or mother.

If I could turn the clock back I’d never again paint myself into a corner the way I did by initially ‘taking one for the team’ and opting to be the SAHP.

People who mentioned taking lower demanding jobs

I feel as if they don’t really exist anymore. What kind of jobs are people thinking of?

I used to feel very much like this. Of course, I’m a different generation from you. However, The few women I know who have had serious careers( don’t know whether they were ‘big’ or not), I have found they were very fed up of them by the time they retired and don’t seem especially happy with the choices they made. Following a career does mean you can’t be there for your children, who tend to develop more complex difficulties as they get up. It also means you’re not available for your DPs as they age.
Much as I bitterly regretted my situation when younger, at this stage of life, I feel pretty satisfied. I would admit to having channelled my energies into my kids as they had considerable teenage difficulties and fortunately they came out of it and went on to get the kind of jobs I would have dreamed of.
Further, I’ve lately been able to invest effort in creative endeavours and get great satisfaction from that, not to mention seeing more of my grandchildren.
From my perspective, a career, big or small, is really not particularly interesting !

I could have written this, with the added challenge that childcare wait lists in our area are so long that we couldn’t get my youngest two into nursery - no choice but for someone to give up their work, and it had to be me. Like any job there are pros and cons, I have days I love it and days I hate it, but I’m going to make the best of it.

Honestly the “not by choice” is a huge emotional hit, and I’m not sure my self esteem has recovered from being forced into a corner I wouldn’t have made by choice. But I’ve realised that people will make their assumptions about you regardless (MN is particularly harsh on SAHM and assumes everyone has the option to get a nursery/nanny/babysitter at the drop of the hat). Your good mates won’t care either way, and you are doing a very, very valuable and much underregarded job.

I’m a middle manager at a university. No travel, no bringing work home and not a lot of stress. It’s not great money, but it’s enough. My husband makes a bit more (but nowhere near 6 figures or anything) but his job requires regular travel. As we are immigrants I had to endure I never ever have to work late or go anywhere as we’d have no backup plan. It’s fine - I don’t hate my job or anything and I get some level of satisfaction from it, but it’s neither a big job or my dream job. It’s super practical.

@PurpleThistle7 that doesn’t sound like an easy job at all! Sounds like a lot of responsibility.

The truth is it only really matters what you and your husband think is best for you and your family at any given point.
I worked full time with 3 young children,it nearly killed me physically and mentally. I worked part time with young children (this was a good option for me) and stayed at home with young children over a 15 yr period .
Looking back i dont regret the time i spend at home with kids,it was valuable and i learned a lot and contributed a lot to out family ,home and the community.
For me, the part time option was optimal. Ive known women who preferred each option for different reasons in different circumstances.

I am actually meeting my old boss soon for a catch up and I do still keep in contact with some of my old colleagues and clients, partly because they became genuine friends and partly to keep a hand in as such. My boss sold his company for millions and has lots of other interests so he’s also in the position where he doesn’t need to work but I’m intrigued to see if he still feels the ‘itch’ as I do if I’m honest! Something smaller or part time would be ideal but I’ve never heard of these sorts of roles within my industry- it was one that was very full on and demanding and most women seemed to disappear once they’d had children sadly!

Well, in my case, I'm a university lecturer. So I wouldn't say it's undemanding, but it's a lot less stressful (and lower paid) than my previous city job.

Thank you for the replies on here. I’m not looking for a solution as such, just to talk it through in a safe space without judgement and to hear people’s perspectives and experiences. A lot of my friends have to work and massively struggle with the juggling act so it’s not something I would discuss with them as when I say I’m in a privileged position, I appreciate a lot of people don’t have a choice

Contributions like what, for example?

I don’t derive self worth from my job, but there is nothing I could do day to day which would go anywhere near reaching my potential, using the capabilities I was born with and have worked hard to improve over the years. My other “contributions” are raising an excellent young person and mentoring some others. I’ve been able to do that whilst also making a contribution to the industry I work in.

Why are women expected to settle for “other contributions” to their potential in a way men aren’t?

I definitely wanted to be there for my children but we also wouldn’t have had anyone to look after them when I would’ve been travelling so I guess it was an emotional and practical decision. I had to do 2 week trips several times a year so it just wouldn’t have been feasible. I do know of women with families in those roles but their partners have jobs where they can wfh or they have grandparents on hand. Technically we could afford a nanny but I also wouldn’t feel comfortable being that far away from them for so long. My husband struggles with it when he has to do long haul but he knows I’m here with them

I'm retraining into a lucrative niche (IT related), and aiming to go PT once my son hits school age. I currently work FT compressed, but have no ambition at work. I don't want to climb a ladder, hit a salary or bonus whatever.

I worked very hard in my twenties, and achieved some really significant things.

I'm more keen now to maximise my earnings for a small number of hours doing useful work. And spend the rest of my time on hobbies, exercise and making family life easier.

I gave up my job when I had my manager asking me exhausted ‘when do you think you’ll be back in’ when son was sick. Dh was in a similar place with his manager and we were arguing can you not stay home?’

Fast forward 8 years and my job was basically gone everywhere and I ended up mw for a few years (still mw!!) and now we’re not getting on and I’m pretty screwed and regularly regret leaving my job all those years ago, especially now when I realise my kids won’t have the help they could have had with two kids in decent jobs!

Saying that I don’t regret it too as we had the ease of us always knowing I could collect, the kids could have friends over, I could help mum and mil out when they needed and other parents at the school/ neighbours too, I could help with homework, the house wasn’t a tip etc etc etc Whatever you do you’ll regret in some ways and be thankful in others and you’ll be full of guilt either way!!!

So interesting reading these posts. DH also has a big job involving a fair amount of travel (although he has instituted some cost-cutting around travel so he doesn’t have to go so much!). We both had big jobs when we met and had DC. I moved sideways into a more niche role in the third sector when DS was two and stayed there for 4 years. It was a big pay cut but was a brilliant job for flexibility and my career profile. Now DS is a bit older (7), I’ve gone back into a ‘big’ job. We don’t have a nanny or any real family help. It is a massive help that we only have one child and that there is cast iron wraparound care at school (including after school activities). As I’ve got more senior, I’ve got more control of my diary too which has helped. I had some time off work between roles earlier this year and realised how much my job gives me a sense of purpose and I really missed working. Personally, I feel privileged to have a job that I love and that, so far, I can balance with being a parent.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Yes I work freelance around school hours and holidays. Works out better than the cost of childcare but is a bit stressful at busy times.

We had this.

The DC are all adults now and I didn't go back to work till they were in secondary and then only part time till they were at uni. It worked overall for us, and I would do it again, but there were some dark and lonely times. DH and I had worked in the same industry previously, with lots of international travel and glamorous parties. I resented him still living that life on the numerous days when I had no adult conversation and he called in the evening too late to talk to the DC and then moaned about something trivial or some office politics. I think it did probably damage my self esteem in ways I am only just understanding.

I think it worked though because we never questioned shared finances and mainly he was very good at phoning the DC when he was travelling, so it was their normal. When he was home, he was 100% there for them.

I think you just have to do your best and what works for you. As it turns out, many years down the line I am now in a career I could never have dreamed of if I had stuck to my old job.

Our next door neighbours both have "big jobs". Their DC are still in primary and they have a morning, an evening and a weekend nanny (three different women). It must work for them, but it is not a lifestyle choice I would make.

I would do it again. With only the tiniest hesitation.

Perhaps my wording ‘by choice’ was wrong or misleading. Of course we made these choices together and I wanted the kids to enjoy the kind of education I experienced. Ultimately I went into a career in my 20s not realising how poor the financial prospects would be long term and without thinking how we’d manage with childcare when we had a family as GPs were all fit and healthy at that point. DH has never made me feel his career is more important, it was more of a practical decision because my salary was less than half of his bonus. We were at similar levels, I’d just gone into an industry that paid really badly.