Should an unpaid family loan be deducted from my brother's inheritance?

[Triflemuncher]

Hi everyone.

Mum passed away semi- unexpectedly. A horrible sad time for us all.

my brother and I have started the process of unpicking her finances. About a year before mum died she lent my brother 10k. At the time of her death there was about £8k left to pay. There was no written loan agreement which I can understand to some degree.

my view is the 8k remaining debt needs to be deducted from brothers share of mums estate. He disagrees and thinks that it was an Informal arrangement between him and mum with no terms and conditions, or any link to her estate.

Where do we stand on this? Is there anything I can do or is this £8k just written off?

Not without any evidence it wouldn't be.

I don't get this. Surely forgiving repayment of funds that would otherwise be part of your other other children's inheritance WILL cause fighting

If her mum had cared that much about it, she would have made him sign an agreement. I think OP, you will need to let it go. The money was owed to your mum, not to you. If anything, you would be entitled to £4k not £8K as your brother would have been entitled to half if it had still been a part of your mum's estate. As a lump sum it is more noticeable/obvious but does that mean that through out your lives you had exactly the same amount of money spent on you or given to you by your mum?

Is it a large portion of the estate?

It represents an extra 2.6% for the Op

Sad, but totally understandable. To all those posters saying you shouldn’t fall out with a sibling over that amount of money, why doesn’t that logic apply to him? He’s being the twat here. I wouldn't want to pursue a relationship with someone who would treat me that way. I wouldn’t fall out with my sibling over something like this, but that’s because they’re the type of person who wouldn’t put me in that position!

Morally he’s clearly in the wrong. Legally, I don’t know, but I would maybe at least attempt the suggestion of a PP trying to get him to admit the loan exists in writing. Then you can at least see what a solicitor would say. You’ve got nothing to lose if the relationship has soured anyway.

Morally he’s clearly in the wrong. Legally, I don’t know, but I would maybe at least attempt the suggestion of a PP trying to get him to admit the loan exists in writing. Then you can at least see what a solicitor would say. You’ve got nothing to lose if the relationship has soured anyway.

Legally OP has a good chance of recovering the loan. A similar situation happened in my extended family. Person A was given 200k as an advance on their inheritance with the understanding that when their relative died, they would balance this by giving Person B 100k out of their 50% share of the estate.

When the relative died, Person A refused to give Person B their share. They said that there was nothing in writing and legally they were not obliged to share it.

Person B got the full 100k and it cost them nothing. There is a way but if OP does not want to engage then I guess she's happy to give away 4k.

A lot of detail is missing on this post on how they got from X to Y!!

They did what I have suggested OP does.

Person B emailed Person A about it and asked questions. Person A, thinking they would never have to hand over the 100k was very arrogant, saying that they thought they needed it more, they were more deserving, etc. Basically put it in writing that yes, the agreement existed but there was nothing Person B could do about it.

That's the first step. Get the details in writing. The aim is not to get the money or persuade the other person that the are wrong, the aim is simply to get as much of the agreement details as possible in writing without giving away what you're doing.

If OP can do that then I can tell her what to do next.

And after this brief exchange - person B said “sure” ?

It wasn't brief. It was a series of emails over 6 months where Person A stuck to their story that they were not legally obliged to hand over 100k. But it turns out they were wrong.

He’s saving himself 4000 if there are two siblings. I’d just leave it personally . OP did you never have any help from your mum?

Yes but just back and forth and then person B said sure.

There was no legal involvement. Just a sibling email exchange and finally person B saw error of ways and repaid in full.

This exact situation happened within my family a couple of years ago but slightly less amount. The solicitor was the executor and legally there was nothing to be done, it was written off.

I’m sorry your brother is doing this for 4000 pounds when he’s inheriting 150. It’s wild and yes it shows what he thinks of your relationship ( unless you’ve had help from you mum in the past?) I’d leave it too but it would upset me ( not the money but the sentiment)

It's Person A who refused to hand it over, not Person B.

There is case law relating to this and Person A and Person B were joint executors, just like OP and her brother. That means that the estate cannot be distributed until it's signed off by both of them.

Person B pointed out the law which Person A was unaware of and Person A realised that they had to pay. There was no need for solicitors or court proceedings.

If OP can get the details confirmed she can reclaim this either as a debt to the estate or as an advance on her brother's inheritance. In my family members case, Person B was just lucky I guess that Person A was arrogant enough to assert their multitude of reasons for keeping his 100k share. You never know, OP's brother might be similarly arrogant.

However, it is only 4k and OP doesn't seem bothered about it.

You've both lost your mother - don't fall out over an 8k debt.

So person B sent a few emails outlining the legal situation

and after some arguing over email with no legal involvement Person A conceded that they had been wrong and transferred the full amount

ok, got it

Good point… on the assumption that the estate is split 50:50.

more broadly, am pretty sure a few murder plots begin this way…:

X takes loan from Y
X can’t repay loan
X arranged for Y to no longer need to be repaid….

🤔

Yes, albeit very reluctantly and with a lot of name calling. The estate could not be distributed until it was settled so they had no choice really. Well, they could have held up the distribution but that would have caused problems with HMRC and it also would have meant that they didn't get the rest of their inheritance which was substantial.

If there is no documentary evidence then hardly worth it for 4K.

If you want to both go to war over that it will probably cost a lot more with no guarantee of success. A solicitor should be able to inform you though.

It is horrible when people behave like this though. You'll know in the future how to behave towards him.

Just be aware that if there are more technicalities ahead he is probably going to be awkward about those too.

Tell the executor.

Have you actually discussed it?
Its not £8k if it's just you two. Its £4k to be deducted from his share and added to yours. No loan agreement obviously but if he has already paid back £2k in a year, I assume he intended to pay it.
The whole "never speaking to him again" if you havent just said " hey Jeff, I know you intended to repay Mum. Shall we adjust it now?" seems a tad over the top.

In principle, absolutely yes.
But in practice, if it’s not evidenced, and he refuses, then no.
In option b, he’s a shit brother and as I have one like that myself, personally I wouldn’t continue a relationship with him. He’s basically stolen from you, but is relying on technicalities to enable it. He doesn’t respect you at all.

Your brother is being greedy and selfish knowing he has already had 10k out of respect for your mum and you he should acknowledge this without a doubt.