Son going off the rails and I don’t know what to do plus school property damage.

[Merrybandofpirates]

I don’t know what to do. My youngest has just recently turned 13, and is in 2nd year of high school (Scotland).
He used to be a model child, but over the last 6 months or so he has become so disrespectful and rude, and thinks he is always right so won’t listen to anyone. It is always punished - immediate removal of phone, decide, TV, day out cancelled etc. Endless talks about how rudeness and disrespect impacts other people. He won’t listen. He is still top set for everything so thinks his way is working fine.

It’s the same in school. Really disrespectful to teachers, dismissive when told off. I didn’t know about most of that until today when I was called into the school about something bigger.
They have a rule of not being allowed into their registration class until the bell rings, especially as their registration class is one of the science rooms. Apparently he and his friends have been ignoring this rule and going in anyway. I didn’t know this - all found out today. The deputy head has wanted them a dozen times, and they’ve continued to go in before the bell. Today, my son and his friend were teasing another friend. It’s been confirmed that this was just usual teasing amongst the friends and silliness, not bullying. I’ve ignored that and am treating it as if my kid was bullying as he clearly took it too far.
The other kid often pushes and shoves “for banter” so, as my kid was teasing him, he started back and shoved mine against the sink and was pushing him over into it. During this, the tap was broken and water started gushing. This is the worst - the boys all ran and didn’t tell anyone. The floor flooded, soaked down to the ceiling below and water started going down there into a computing suite. The ceiling tiles came down. I don’t know the extent of the damage in each room - I don’t know what’s been damaged in the science room, or how many computers have been ruined below or what the extent is of the structural damage. It only happened this morning. I’m back in tomorrow for a proper chat about it all.

I just don’t know what to do. I’ve backed the school fully, whatever they want suspension wise and consequences and punishments. He’s had all privileges lost at home, and will be doing extra chores and work etc. But it all seems meaningless. What do I do?

I’m also terrified about the repair bill, so that terror is clouding how I deal with him. I’m a single parent. I work but get UC top up. Every penny is gone very month. I don’t know how I’m going to pay this repair bill. The school haven’t mentioned it but once they know the extent of what’s been damages and how many computers need replaced… I feel like something is gripping my chest and I can’t breathe over the stress of how to pay this, and then I feel awful as it’s my kid, I need to pay and I should only be caring about sorting him out.

Sorry - this is just a long ramble as I’m in a bit of shock.

Is he smart enough that you think he might qualify for a scholarship place at an independent school or even a state boarding school?

As others have said he may need more intellectual challenge than he’s getting and a different peer group.

And sympathies - you sound great but weary. Teens are hard work.

Well he will be selling the phone /console to pay then won't he?

The console he shares with his brother? No. And the phone he needs for getting the train to his dad’s which is several years old, and has a crack on the screen. It would get around £30.

No. I’m looking for sensible actions that will make a difference with his behaviour, not empty gestures that make no difference.

This sounds so familiar. Have you posted this before?

Does your DS’ dad engage with the school at all? If you are called in to the school to discuss the issues would they say he should come too? Because he definitely should, it sounds like he needs a reality check.
As for the cost of the damage that was caused, in the unlikely event that the school tries to bill you for repairs, appeal against this, citing your actual circumstances. If it's not possible, it's not possible. You can’t get blood out of a stone.
But I wouldn’t worry about it too much (easy to say, I know) as PP say, it would be covered by their insurance. Schools must be covered for any damage, accidental or not.

It happened this morning.

Well, mine are well behaved, respectful and doing well in school. OPs is taking out entire classrooms, floors, ceilings and plumbing included and talking to her like shit, sooo... 🤷‍♀️

And I’d rather deal with this than have my children in a violent home. Please butt out. Your suggestions of hitting my kid is not wanted.

And to be clear - my kid and a friend were teasing their other friend, who then lunged at them and started hitting and shoved my kid into the sink, then that kid ripped off the tap. They then all ran off. My child didn’t damage anything, but I’m treating him as though he has when it comes to consequences because next time, it could be him. His crime was running off so the damage was ten times worse, but even the school aren’t blaming him for it. I am. And I’m doing something about it.

I’m going to go against the grain here, and not for him, but for you. I think you are handling it well.

If I look at these actions objectively they are stupid but relatively minor in themselves. Breaking a rule, physical horseplay - these aren’t disastrous imo and certainly not way out there for an adolescent boy. The worst thing is running off with a tap running, because he wasn’t taking responsibility, and that’s what has caused the damage. But none of this suggests to me that he is heading off the rails in any significant way.

Im fine with you and the school coming down hard (not that it’s up to me), because the damage has been significant and he needs to understand that. And I think the advice to go through your budget and payslips with him now so he understands very clearly what this sort of bill would represent is good. But I don’t think you will have to pay, and I don’t think this means disaster for him.

Could he start working towards a coaching qualification in kayaking, or life guarding? Responsibility for others could help.

He has already owned up to feeling shocked and admitting he made a mistake. This is a really good start.

You say he never listens, but is it time you listen - even though he won;t want to talk.

Sit down with a cup of tea and slic eof cake and say: 'What do you think is going on?' If he hasn't answered for a while, say, 'It's not a rhetorical question. I want to know what you think has led to you suddenly behaving in such destructive ways, being rude to adults who are clearly working their guts out to help you have a good life: me, your teachers. Why? You need to understand your behaviour to take responsibility for it. Why are you behaving like this?'

If he says 'I don't know' and gets all sorry for himself, say, 'Not good enough. You need to know. Start thinking aloud - what could be causing this sudden downturn in your behaviour?' insist he comes up with some ideas. You don't get up from that table until he has. But no raised voices. No anger. Just serious concern.

Once he's opened up a bit, ask, 'What do you think you can do to help yourself get back on track?' Again zero tolerance for 'dunno'. He needs to come up with a plan he is accountable to.

And chat a bit informally about his future. Say: when you are twenty or thirty or forty, do you think you will be glad and proud that you are good at chess, and so can connect with brilliant people form all over the world, even if you don't speak their language? Do you think you will be proud of being a really good musician, able to join brass bands, jazz bands, rock bands? Or will you be proud of getting kicked out of school, raging at the mother who has raised and loved you single handed, disrespecting the teachers who are intelligent enough to earn twice what they do, but who care enough about society to teach you - for free- to give you the best chance in later life? Which of the things you currently do, do you think you will glad you did more of, and which do you think you'll be glad you stopped doing?'

Again - these are not rhetorical questions. Make him answer every single one of them, out loud, and looking you in the eye.

It sounds as if you dealt with him in the meeting well, op, and from his reaction it sounds as if this has hit home. Honestly, with a firm response from you now, it sounds as if this could turn out to be a turning point for him. The shock could be exactly what he needs and reach parts of the teenage brain that might otherwise have kept slipping. Hang on on there. Let him cope with the consequences now and rebuild from here. He's going to have to prove to the school now that he is worth ever trusting again and that will take real consequences, consistent effort, and lots of hard work.

The school won't bankrupt you to pay for the damage. If there is a bill, you can negotiate a reasonable and long term payment plan, but they will be insured and won't lose out.

Speak to school. Tell son that they’ve agreed that if his behaviour doesn’t improve, mum will take a week off work and attend school with him escorting him to every class and watching him at lunchtime. You’ll have no money of course because of time off so x and y won’t be bought for a good while.

Firstly don't worry about the repair costs, the school's insurance will cover them, at most they might ask you to cover the excess (most likely they won't but worst case scenario) but I would try and make an estimate of what the repairs would cost and make a chart of chores your son needs to do to cover that "cost". I had similar recently with DS, messing about with friends and broke a car window. Insurance covered it but I am charging him the excess and he is working that debt off one (very low paid) job at a time.

It sounds like your DS is very bright, its possible he's getting bored in school, and perhaps also feels the need to show off and be a big man in front of his mates so he's not viewed as a geek. Its no excuse of course but might explain the discrepancy between his behaviour in school and out of school. Sounds to me like you are reacting in just the right way, and it might have shocked him enough to strongly consider changing his behaviour. I hope it does. I'm guessing it won't be enough of a shock for his dad to change his lack of parenting though, but fingers crossed it does something.

I said this today in the meeting - that I would walk him through the halls to each class, or I’d sit outside and he can spend his break and lunch in the car with me.

I also did the chat someone up above said when we got home, the careful questioning and going through his behaviour over the last 4 or so months, asking his opinion on looking back now and why he is doing this etc.

I’ve done everything I can think of. Then sent him out to walk round the green to cool off, so we could move on to talking about his ideas for how to move forward and how he should act in class when friends start acting the clown, and how he should respond to teachers when he is told off. I’ve said even if you have done nothing, you take the telling as they won’t believe and you have to earn the trust back by controlling your attitude etc.

I don’t know what else to say, it’s now onto action but that’s a long term thing of working through it and I think my impatient to sort this is getting in the way of me taking a breath and realising that it is a long term action issue now. It’s just very difficult.

Good luck. Hopefully he’s had a shock and will improve. Sounds like you’re doing a good job. Hang in there.

Parents dont get repair bills for school damage, unless its changed in last 15 years or so.
He doesn't sound a bad kid to me, just a bit naughty behaviour wise, has he been assessed for adhd, no offence intended, his behaviour reminded me of my son at school.

@Merrybandofpirates from what you’ve said yto I’ve done all the right thing.

It sounds like you’re looking for that magic action that will just make behave right, like he was 6 months ago.
Very gently, that doesn’t exist.

Yuve done a lot already. Now it’s time to look at the consequences of it all. See if he is changing his behaviour.

In the next few weeks, see if you can work with the school to separate him from other ‘bad influences’ like the other 2 involved in that incident. (The rest of the time it doesn’t look like he is engaging with people with not great behaviours).

If he was a bit older, I would have told him he needs to work (eg paper round) to get money for a donation for the school if they accept those.

I'm hoping this recent event with the flooding is the wake up call that he needs,to sort himself out 😔

You sound like good mum who's doing all the right things, this isn't your fault, some teenage boys just act like idiots despite how we've raised them.

S2 seems to be peak time for this kind of shit. Kids make mistakes it's how your deal with it and what comes next that matters. We went through a really rough patch with my ds (now in S5) at that age. Vaping, fire raising, sexual activity, he really put us through it! Like your ds he's bright and capable and sporty and had all the opportunities, we don't have much money but always make sure his needs came first.

He's matured and come through the other side, he got eight As in his Nat 5s and is taking his sport very seriously, homework always done, goes to the gym and just much nicer to be around. Doing 5 Highers this year and thinking about university. I didn't think that would be the case 18months age! I can't say what we did, I think he just grew up a bit and turned a corner.

Although there were some consequences for poor behaviour, we didn't come down too hard on him, as we were very conscious not to push him away and make him rebel against us further. We made sure he knew we were always there, if he got himself into a situation he can always tell us and we'll help and deal with the consequences later.

Honestly I know how you're feeling right now and it's a rubbish place to be, you're wondering where you went wrong and think everyone's judging you. Hopefully this has given your ds a fright and will set him back on the right path.

Hi OP,

Teacher in Scottish secondary here, & well used to the surges in hormones that S2 brings for both boys & girls.

His extra-curriculars sound good- a good mix of team (band) & sports. I wonder how many good male role models he has around him either at these activities or wider family/ friends, because he needs these to counteract his arse of a father. The influence of dad is far bigger than you can ever imagine.

Scouts/Cadets/Boxing/Martial Arts are all really good for boys who are hormonal & rebelling somewhat. I have 3 DS & they all did/do scouts/rugby/martial arts & each had a strong male role model. Do you have a brother/uncle/friend who could be a bit more involved? Boys really need their mum, but they also need good men in their lives, not necessarily a father.

Steve Biddulph's book 'Raising Boys' is excellent - it explains why so well.

He's clearly bright so will understand your reasons for why he needs to do/not do certain things. Explain WHY to him very clearly each time & let him process it. I have a bright 19 yr old adhder & I have learned he needs why all the time, & repeatedly so he can process it.

Good luck, you've got this.

My partner of 3 years has been doing jiu jitsu for 30 years, and is a regular at his club for it. But it’s in the city so another long drive out for another activity. He met my kids about a year and a half ago, but I don’t have them around each other much. I didn’t want to intrude on their lives with a man I picked, that they didn’t. But he is such a solid, straight person who would be a good influence and could do that sport with him. I just don’t know if it’s appropriate, as it’s my boyfriend.

It depends upon location (I'm not so familiar with schools in Scotland), but they usually have to cover the first thousand or so out of their budget and then the local authority - if applicable - self insure for the next fifty grand to a quarter of a million, the final amount covered by insurance is over and above that. If it's a school that doesn't have the LA self insurance, they're likely to be on the hook for about £5k.

It would be exceedingly difficult legally to get the money out of parents, even if instead of a simple push that resulted in a tap snapping off, the water being turned on and the sink becoming blocked then overflowing and causing structural and electrical damage all entirely by accident, it was a case of deliberate vandalism like when toilets are pulled off walls, sinks stuffed with paper, taps turned on and hit/kicked repeatedly to cause the metal to shear off above the valve and then those concerned ran away. So I don't think the OP needs to worry about that. And from what I've read, Scottish schools aren't fond of permanent exclusion for violence, never mind causing tens of thousands of pounds of damage, even if it is deliberate - and as her son has said, his friend just fell on the tap and it snapped and turned on and blocked the sink.

Thank you everyone. He has calmed down from today so we’ve been able to talk further. And I’ve explained that a lot of things that will be implemented are going to feel like they’re just punishments, but they’re actually interjections to get him back on track alongside consequences. I’ve got some notes for the meeting tomorrow with ways he could help the school, and ways I can help by being available to come up etc. And questions for how they can help in his classes, if he can move to the front of the class and away from that group of boys and if he can be paired with someone else in his practical classes rather than this boy.

Phone, Alexa, PC and PlayStation are off limits unless for homework. And I’ve discussed how extra chores will help added if I get any eye rolls or huffing or back chat when he is told to do his usual chores, and any rudeness to his brother or me will result in removal of his in the house hobby items etc. There will be an immediate consequences to each instance of disrespect, until a full and sincere apology happens after he has reflected on his behaviour. Things won’t be returned immediately as he will need to go another full day without a single snippy comment. It’s going to be a very tight ship for a while.

I just hope I’m doing the right thing.