Table Manners

[PistachioTiramisu]

We were having a drink at a fairly upmarket pub yesterday evening. Two young men - around 20 - came to sit at a table next to us and ordered roast beef and Yorkshire pudding. I watched in fascinated horror as they proceeded to 'devour' their food. They both held their cutlery the wrong way round and like daggers, they attacked the meat over and over with their forks, then tearing it on the plate. Finally, instead of putting food on their forks and bringing fork to mouth, they bent over and shovelled the food into their mouths from the plate. Do people not learn table manners any more? It seems to me that all the niceties of life are being eroded to the lowest common denominator. So sad.

Agree. It’s vile and I’ve no idea why table manners appear to be a thing of the past. And it doesn’t matter where you are, a Michelin star restaurant or a ‘spoons, it’s everywhere. People who apparently cannot use a knife and fork, chew with mouths wide open, talking with their mouths full, food going everywhere. Grim.

It is off-putting when in company with, or seated near, someone with very poor table manners. I suppose that it comes from the example of the people that you ate with in your formative years, and if ever they corrected your table manners to make dining a more pleasant experience.

In my case, I think my table manners come from spending a lot of time eating with my grandparents. At university, my "normal-to-me" table manners were considered to be very formal, and when friends tried to copy me, they found it uncomfortable. My brother did not spend a lot of time eating with my grandparents (or even at home, to be honest)- he was more likely to be out with friends' houses- and I, er, find it hard to eat a meal with him due to his off-putting table manners, and being elbowed if sat next to him when he is sawing through meat.

As a trainee primary school teacher, supervising the dining hall was an eye-watering experience at times.

I tend to use my cutlery in the wrong hands, I think it’s dow to changes to what people eat?

Pasta, noodles etc I wouldn’t necessarily use a knife at all.

I also don’t understand why so many people now use the knife and fork the wrong way around? I was at a formal work lunch over Christmas a few years ago and a professional man in his 40s ate with the knife and fork in the wrong hands, hunched over his plate slurping with elbows out like a caveman. Another speared a potato with his fork, waved it about and ate it like a lollipop. I was astounded. I saw the big boss
observing them too.
I also recently had brunch with an old friend who brought her 11 year old daughter. The child ate a fried breakfast with her fingers and only seemed competent with a spoon. Friend was oblivious to it. Why would people not teach their children basic table manners so they end up as adults who people look
at in restaurants? My parents were sticklers for proper table manners and I’m grateful for it seeing the state of people now.

But nowhere does anyone in the UK eat by shovelling stuff into their gobs in the way the OP describes.

I was on a holiday tour group with a friend, who usually had OK table manners, but one evening we were in a very nice pub for a meal with a couple of others from the tour group. We all ordered steak and my friend proceeded to pick the steak up and eat it with her hands, then used the cutlery for the accompanying veg etc, then picked the steak up again with her hands. Everyone’s eyes were boggling and to this day I have absolutely no idea what she thought she was doing that for, but I was mortified.

DSS easts horribly, general manners are good but he's finished before i'm even a quarter of the way done. More inhaling his food rather than actually chewing it & enjoying it properly. Then wonders why he gets hiccups every single time he eats

My DS(11) has recently been diagnosed with Dyspraxia and he struggles with using cutlery properly. He is also a messy eater because his fine motor skills suffer as a result (as does his handwriting, spatial awareness, balance etc).

We try so hard to help him eat more neatly and cleanly but it’s an uphill battle, and he is seeing an OT soon to help with these things.

What I’m trying to say is that a small proportion of people may have a condition like Dyspraxia which can make fine motor skills hard to master, and people like my DS are not deliberately making a mess or have poor table manners because cutlery use is difficult.

There was a similar thread a while ago about table manners and a couple of posters made comments saying any child who is messy like mine wouldn’t be welcome in their home again. DS is a kind, friendly, polite, honest and caring child and to be potentially banned from someone’s house because of his issues makes me feel incredibly sad that he would be judged like this.

I hate bad table manners too. The amount of influencers who can’t hold cutlery, chew with mouth open and so on is shocking. It really puts me off.

There is no ‘wrong way round’ to use cutlery. Right handed people hold the knife in their right hand, left handed people hold it in their left hand. It’s the more dominant hand that is used to cut the food. There is no right or wrong way!

My Ds and I can’t eat with those with poor table manners and will move tables in a restaurant or move seats on a train if possible. I’d ban eating on buses and trains if had any say in the matter. Medical issues aside of course. Bring back the buffet car! Ds has to sit separately at school to eat. So many eat with their mouth open and make loud smacking noises with their lips. Or people chew like they’ve not eaten for a week. I too look on in fascinated horror before the fight or flight kicks in and we are out of there.
i was raised to eat at a table and not in front of the tv but lots of people don’t have a table. It was a treat to eat in the living room on one of the nest of tables table, or usually when ill as a one-off.
so many people can’t correctly hold a knife and fork. Food is shovelled. Society is going to hell in a hand basket. Bring back dainty finger sandwiches and cake forks (I always eat cake with a cake fork). Gravy in a sauce boat with a small sauce ladle. Side plates for bread (always on the left), linen napkins, proper cutlery not that plastic handles stuff, tablecloths, and water goblets. I saw some amazing pink glass water goblets at Chatsworth. Beautiful. We have a jug of water for the table. A nicely and properly set table is a joy.

Loads do though, as evidenced by the OP.

All I can imagine from this post is these two guys eating their food looking like they belong at The Simpsons dinner table

That was me eating ribs and half a chicken in Disney world 😂😂

People who chew loudly and eat with their mouths open.. worse talk with mouth full makes me feel sick and is the table manners I will always stick by. If I have a meal with someone who does any of the above, I can’t make the same mistake twice as it honestly puts a feeling in my chest like someone is sitting on it. Horrible.

i think table manners are a dying thing but I still would prefer them. If my children can do it then almost anyone can do it surely

My grandparents were in service and they made damn sure that all of their children and grandchildren knew their table manners.

I went to lunch at an Ambassador’s residence a couple of years ago and was appalled by the table manners of the junior diplomats - eating with their mouths open, grabbing three bread rolls at a time from the basket, taking all the butter, hunched over their food as if someone was going to steal it, and drinking the wine as if it were squash and they were in a competition to see who could neck the most in an hour. No idea which plate to use for bread and stabbing the food with their forks.

While in one sense I completely agree with you OP and there really isn’t an excuse for an adult with bad table manners, I also wouldn’t let it bother me if I saw it out in public, I’m not sat at the table with them and they are not effecting my life so I wouldn’t really let it concern me.

I think you might need some therapy.

The trend for having your cutlery in the wrong hand is a cultural contagion.

why???

its not unreasonable at all to expect decent manners, but my son has dyspraxia and really struggles with a knife and fork, so much so that he won't eat out in public and he has generally impeccable manners, obviously that's not everyone though!

I can't abide bad manners and really struggle when people don't put their knife and fork together when finished. When they are just flung on the plate at any angle makes me shudder.

Not quite the same but I was fairly mesmerised recently by a couple eating on a table next to me. He didn't eat a thing, just sat there with his arms folded looking thunderous. Apparently the beef was chewy (it wasn't, we had the same) but would not let the waiting staff replace the meal or take the plate away. So odd.

His wife was eating her meal. Well I say she was eating it, she was putting food in her mouth and chewing but the food on her plate never got any smaller. She must have been eating one pea at a time. It was sooo strange!

Not at all, I agree with most of this.

I agree. I went to a pub a little while ago for a meal and, omg, a young man came in with his 10-year-old son and sat next to us. Farmyard animals have better table manners than those two. The father sat there in his baseball hat holding his knife and fork like a toddler, and both ate with their mouths open, smacking their lips together and burping.

Also, right in my eye line were two middle-aged couples (all obese). The woman nearest me ate like a pig. And I mean an actual pig. If she could have had her meal in a trough, I think she'd have preferred it. She smacked her lips together so loudly I wanted to throw something at her. Never again. 😩

I've always used cutlery the 'wrong way round', as a child I realised I was much more comfortable that way round. My right hand is still my dominant hand. I was quite upset thinking about all the Mumsnetters out there horrified by my eating habits! 🤣. It has to be said I don't shovel my food, or bend over my plate, I'm not that crass. Oldest son eats like it's the last meal he'll ever have and 5 people are waiting on the wings to take it off him, no amount of nagging changes it. Comes from speed eating at school to have more playtime.

I can't abide bad manners and really struggle when people don't put their knife and fork together when finished. When they are just flung on the plate at any angle makes me shudder.

But that has nothing to do with table manners, good or bad. That's just etiquette, and is culture-specific, anyway. Not putting your knife and fork together when you've finished eating doesn't make anyone's life worse and is no more 'bad manners' than Americans putting down their knives after cutting a piece of food, or the use of bread in cultures where eating utensils aren't much used.