10 years since Brexit-would you vote the same?

[NoEffingWay]

I was listening to a podcast today about this, and it was really interesting. They had a group of people who voted Leave at the time, and although most of them were unhappy about how it has panned out, only one would have changed his vote if they could have voted tomorrow.
I voted remain at the time, and would do so again. The loss of freedom to travel across the EU, and work without visas is a loss, most likely not to me, but to DS who would have loved to have travelled across Europe and work his way with ease.
What would you do, and why?

On private education? That wasn’t an outcome of Brexit, but this is MN so naturally every thread must at some point bring this up.

It couldn’t have been implemented if we’d still been in the EU so why isn’t it an outcome of Brexit?

Agree with this. It's certainly an outcome.

Is the benefit that everyone is talking about?

When I come back to the UK I'm shocked by the visible poverty and neglect that's worsened over the last 15 years in many UK cities and even in the more prosperous south east.

@Chocolatefreak where are you living now? I have travelled all over Europe in my motorhome and seen beautiful place in the countryside and pretty towns, but also visible poverty in the cities, don't think it is a UK only issue. Seen lots of heartbreaking begging in so called rich countries such as France, Italy and Greece.

I know what you mean about UK cities though, they have changed a lot in my lifetime and I'm always happy to get back to the villages and towns.

My considerations are not purely economic or convenience to travel. I have travelled extensively around the world, more so than in Europe. My DH and I did have a house in the south of France, a holiday home. We sold it long before Brexit. Just to give you some context.

I was living in London when we had the referendum, I was born in London. I voted to remain and called myself then “a reluctant remainer”.

I voted remain, reluctantly, because I thought that by remaining, the UK would be at the table during the much needed reform that I felt the EU should adopt.

I would now vote to leave if there were another referendum because direction of the EU is towards supranationalism.

I do believe in political sovereignty and in the electorates right to elections that hold governments to account and which allow the electorate the ability to remove them.

I do feel there is a democratic deficit in the structure of the European Union in that the European Parliament and the European Council are to far removed the legislative commission to have much power and say.

We do need a closer relationship with the EU,
of course we do. Brexit was not a success, it will not be allowed to be a success and so for those looking for benefits all you will find is validation that we are better off in.

Now, let thunder rain down on me!

I voted remain and would do so again. I loved being a part of the EU and it meant a lot to me ideologically. Yes, it wasn't perfect but nor is any particular system. I studied languages, have lived in Europe and really benefitted from EU membership so many ways.

Plus, it's cost our business tens of thousands of pounds and has brought absolutely zero benefit.

I live in France. Salaries are generally lower and taxes higher here, but quality of life is better as a result - cleaner water, cheaper energy, shorter working hours. In general, public services seem to function better.

The French energetically object when there is a threat to basic rights while the UK seems to have allowed them to be eroded. It's definitely not perfect here in France for many people - and global crises impact on everyone - but as a Brit and a regular visitor I have an inside/outside perspective on the UK and see how political events over the last few years have shaped people's lives for the worse.

I voted leave at the time. I actually thought that the politicians promoting remain did an absolute shit job of promoting the benefits of being in the EU, and what we got out of it compared to the vast amounts of money the country was spending being part of it. They spent more time trying to take the piss out of the leave politicians than they did giving valid and constructive arguments that the general public would consider relevant to them and their daily lives. Lots of people saying about the opportunity to freely move countries- it's absolutely great, but do you know how out of reach that is for a large proportion of the country? For someone growing up in your typical 'deprived' area, they will probably grow up knowing no-one who has moved abroad, or done a few years working in Europe, or has 2 homes. Moving to the next city or even half an hour away from where you grew up is considered thinking you're better than everyone else.
It's no good acting like the idea of leaving is absolutely stupid, and the people who think it are idiots, which is absolutely how they acted, without giving the average person on the street a clear idea of what they could lose.
Yet again, politics were aimed at the middle and higher classes, thinking that the working class people wouldn't turn out to vote, as they usually don't.

Where the leave camp actually had a full campaign as to why it might benefit that appealed to a wide range of people. Yes, some- maybe lots- of it was bullshit, and some hasn't come to pass, but it's only with the benefit of hindsight that's known.
And in my view, that's why it came to pass. They told the average working class person, the person who hasn't got an option to pay for private care, that they might be able to get a NHS dentist again, or not be waiting for an operation, or that there might be more jobs available for them.
So the people who don't normally vote, voted to leave.

Would I vote the same now? No, knowing how badly it's been handled and that lots of benefits haven't come to pass. But again, that's with the benefit of hindsight.

I wouldn't vote to rejoin though, I don't think. I think the UK leaving has pulled a good few threads on the EU, and it's not as appealing as it was. I also think the world is a different place to 10 years ago, and what we would get now probably wouldn't be worth the money spent on it. And I don't trust that the shit show of politicians that we have would be able to pull a good deal, or that they wouldn't be taking back handers from various individuals to get certain restrictions or perks.

What I would like to see is a completely separate board for EU negotiations, and for the NHS, that transcends whichever political party is in power, to sort it out. And pay someone to be in charge. So we might get someone who is good at the job, who is going to do their best, who won't be leaving after 1 year, or 4, or 10, and can actually do a job properly and see it though.

I am going to name change for this, because unfortunately lots of people are dickhead about this subject, and just want to have a row with you, rather than seeing that every single person in the country had a vote, and that's just life.

Ah, because the EU would’ve stopped it from happening? Is this the sovereignty we’ve been promised, my mistake for not recognising it.

Thank you for providing a reasoned answer, this is exactly the kind of valid response that I can see the rationale behind.

I think a lot of leave voters won't admit that they fell for the lies of the vote leave campaign, so to save face they have to insist that they'd do it again.

They just don't accept that the problems facing the UK are due to Brexit, they blame politicians, and shift to the far right parties, as Reform and Restore blame politicians too.

I voted remain and would do the same again but I hope I wouldn’t such an arse about the result

Because you have experience of 2 countries. Why do you think that so many people travel through France but want to settle in the UK?

I'd like to see some examples @MNLurker1345 . Not convinced by buzzwords.

In the UK we still have massive potential - we have a history of academic excellence and technological innovation. We have a huge amount of cultural and artistic talent that is valued all over the world. We are still recognised militarily and diplomatically. For a small country we are remarkable. BUT that status is eroded by our own stupid national decisions, not the EU's. It is lazy and frankly, incorrect to say the democratic deficit is the EU's fault.

The EU needs reform but it does not erode political sovereignty. It in fact reinforces it in these ways:

• Protects the rule of law through common legal standards and oversight.
• Strengthens independent courts by requiring judicial independence.
• Raises transparency standards for public procurement, lobbying, and government decision-making.
• Supports free and fair elections through monitoring, cooperation, and democratic norms.
• Protects fundamental rights including free speech, privacy, and non-discrimination.
• Provides checks on governments that undermine democratic institutions or media freedom - see Hungary for example.
• Requires democratic membership. States must be democratic to join and remain in good standing.
• Empowers national parliaments to review and challenge proposed EU legislation under the subsidiarity principle - it actually strengthens national parliaments to hold the EU accountable!
• Encourages cross-border cooperation on corruption, organised crime, and election security.
• Funds civil society, research, and local development, strengthening democratic participation beyond central governments.
• Creates shared standards that make governments more accountable to citizens and businesses.
• Offers legal recourse through the Court of Justice of the European Union when EU law and citizens' rights are violated.

Damage has been done to the UK economically, culturally and socially through our own national policies - creating inequality through education, taxation and housing policies, destroying manufacturing without a transitional pathway, privatising whole sectors (water, the railways) so they are more costly and inefficient. Blaming the UK's problems on the EU is a typically uniformed response - just like blaming our problems on immigration. It's also cowardly.

I voted remain and would vote the same way again. I do however accept the decision and I am not sure if re-joining is worth it as we would not have as good terms as we did when we left.

I like France and know it well. My inlaws moved to Limoges so spent quite some time there back in the day. Very quaint and they renovated a house, had a dinky life but commented the bureaucracy is bonkers and it takes an age for anything to happen. Think that's what got to them in the end and they moved back eventually. This was all pre-Brexit.

I can see why you are frustrated with Brexit as a Brit in the EU. It hasn't made much difference to my life yet. I've flown a few times in the past 2 years and not experienced the chaos yet. Taken the motorhome by ferry and been smooth going - so far.

My DB is trying to get his Swedish girlfriend over here and it is costing him time and money. Would not be a problem pre-Brexit. But he is a massive bellend (excuse my French) so I take it as a Brexit bonus😜

Brexit caused a massive surge of non-European immigration.

People come to the UK for family, work, language reasons. Plenty also settle in France.

I have lived in several other countries. How many have you lived in apart from the UK?

I don’t claim Brexit has solved Britains problems. The reasons I would vote leave if there was another vote would not be primarily economic. My reasoning would be constitutional.

I do believe democratic sovereignty has value and that British voters should ultimately elect or remove our institutions of political authority.

Reasonable people can agree or disagree about whether it has been worthwhile, but it’s not irrational or uninformed to value constitutional self government over the economic advantages of more integration.

Thank you for answering. I was interested to have more than a general answer because you live in France and it is a very pertinent question. Your last question does not seem in good faith so best to leave it.

Voted remain. Brexit was a massive mistake due to social media funding from Putins Russia. It’s a shame so many were taken in by the lies.

It made me really appreciate the EU though, so much so that reader I moved here! (EU passport holder dh made it possible). Much happier now.

And my point was, with the examples i gave, the EU actually REINFORCES national democracy, in multiple invaluable ways. However, you seem to have formed an opinion and facts aren't going to change your mind.

As for EU supranationalism, there are key areas where this makes sense - economically better deals can be negotiated - critical during periods of fiscal downturn or increasingly, against unreliable trading partners, and defence - do the advantages of those need spelling out too?

Yes. I would still vote to Remain

I responded because I could provide actual lived experience.

Yes l voted remain. I believe in the European courts of human rights.. which went along with loads of other things.. especially holidaying abroad.

Ah, because the EU would’ve stopped it from happening? Is this the sovereignty we’ve been promised, my mistake for not recognising it.

This is an example of what I predicted. I gave what some might consider a benefit and you’ve replied with a sneer.

Do you see it as a benefit?
I thought it might be to start with but it doesn't seem to be making money.

It wouldn't be a vote changer for me though (and Reform look like reversing it anyway if they get in).