What is it like to live in Scandinavia?

[Glitterbiscuits]

DH and I are having a debate.

He says Scandinavian countries are the most developed socially, economically and in regard to the environment, equality, etc. He assumes there is not much poverty or homelessness in Scandinavian countries. He thinks the high taxes leads to good public services such as transport.

Is his positive view justified?

Much crueller policies towards migrants and asylum seekers.

Fitted furniture is badly proportioned for the untall.

Having lived there, it's not as nice as many would have you believe. Norway, IMO is the best of the three and the only one I would want to go back to live. Sweden and Denmark have some quite nasty right-wing groups and are by no means tolerant of immigrants.

There are also parts of Copenhagen I would not be happy walking around after dark and I was brought up in a rough part of South London.

Also, never, never, get into a conversation with a Swede about taxation.

I think DH assumes all is wonderful and that the countries are very similar.

They are all different! Sweden is very clean and mostly very safe. I don't think it is really any more right wing and anti immigration than the UK - there aren't any painted roundabouts here! But they are countries with small populations, and that makes a big difference to social cohesion I think.

Like anything the reality is going to be a bit different to the cliche.

I have a Swedish friend who had her babies here then moved home. She said the downside to the cheap childcare is quite a strong cultural pressure to go back to work. Options are mainly working 80% with 3pm pick up 5 days a week, or FT. She didn't find as many part time options as people have here, and she puts it down to the strong cultural norm of everyone needing to do paid work to contribute to society. SAHP is rare and not valued.

She still moved home though. I'm not saying it's wonderful or not wonderful but it is a difference she perceives compared with the UK. I can see the appeal of bringing children up feeling a responsibility to society, I'm not sure we are very good at that these days.

It depends where you live - there is a lot of difference between central Stockholm/ Oslo/ Copenhagen etc and the middle of faming or forest country

They have had truly abominable experiences due to immigration and it has really taken a toll. They have PTSD now.

I have a friend in Sweden who seems very happy there. Seems childcare is really good too, and generally a good place to raise children.

'Crueller' policies towards migrants??

What about the citizens??

Yes, making citizens effectively complicit in asset stripping of desperate refugees is bad for their humanity and unChristian. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35406436

Re childcare - the quality is dramatically higher in most S countries. It’s well paid and requires higher education, an understanding of theories of child psychology etc. it’s very unlike the mass industrialised childcare here which feels to me like a ticking time-bomb of poor attachment and alienation.

DH thinks equality would be better. I’m not sure I agree with him. He thinks everything is provided for the citizens and there is little homelessness.
I doubt it’s this Utopia. But don’t know anyone who lives there.

your Husband needs to compare Italy with the UK for a fairer comparison, as landmass and population density is more closely aligned. Scandinavia has the lowest population density in Europe. Anyway, ruddy Viking’s took all our treasures, so I think it’s time to ask for it back!

The parental leave in Norway certainly helps, as do the urban and other adjustments to welcome children into regular galleries and cafés. Taxes ofc are very high.

Finland is Nordic, not Scandinavian. Their social policies require neighbourhoods to be mixed by class, wealth, etc so everyone knows each other. No naice vs grotty. The Finns I have worked with or know always point proudly to active social engineering like this and sometimes add they are sick of other countries and cultures cherrypicking just one aspect of Finnish life like infant education and saying they want to copy it -- it only works as a whole package of policies.

Which are the parts of Copenhagen you don't feel safe in?

This. A very close friend of mine with an olive complexion was relieved to stop working in Denmark for her company and return to the UK. She loves her job and is a fun and boundaried professional who is well travelled. She had been looking forward to the experience. She found the Danes closed and condescending.

ETA I have worked with these cultures and in these places for over half my life, and loved them, but also I have chosen to withdraw somewhat in the last decade.

@SamAylward i'm intrigued to know what happens in a tax conversation!

@ChipswithMayonnaise also wondering why you have withdrawn

I've never even visited, but the people I know who visit always come back and say it's brilliant - completely get that that's different to living there though

DH also thinks the tax structure is brilliant, but that's easy to say from the outside isn't it?

Is corruption as bad in Scandinavian countries? I live in an EU country and it's a joke, the last two mayors of our city are in prison 🙄

Sweden, in particular, had a growing problem with organised crime and drugs. It’s one of the less safe countries in Europe.

I do love Finland and Iceland...
It is intangible and personal to some extent, and a big generalisation, but there is a kind of changed vibe. More closedness and rigidity, a sense of superiority, in Scandinavian (not Nordic) countries. I am currently preferring messier but more various and human-feeling places.

I like Scandinavian countries however they have a reputation for being bland for a reason.

They dislike any kind of non conformity. It's not a spoken thing. More a state thing, if that makes sense.

The eccentric British elements of our society would not be looked on favourably even though they are really positive to the UK. So the elements of British society we would view as very progressive wouldn't be ok but also our more conservative regressive elements.

The best way to put it is the bandwidth of acceptability is much more narrow.

This is bullshit.

It depends on where you are talking about. Iceland isn't technically Scandinavian but yep corrupt as all hell. Simply because a smaller population.

Different countries with differing positives and negatives - cultures, attitudes, lifestyles etc…

@ChipswithMayonnaise thanks I'm always interested in peoples experiences of living abroad

Maybe we could do it in future
I think that most places will change over 10 years though

What I've heard about Scandinavian cities being really clean and everything just sounds amazing! In terms of a holiday destination people certainly rave about it

But I have also heard about gang issues in Sweden
For sure