What is it like to live in Scandinavia?

[Glitterbiscuits]

DH and I are having a debate.

He says Scandinavian countries are the most developed socially, economically and in regard to the environment, equality, etc. He assumes there is not much poverty or homelessness in Scandinavian countries. He thinks the high taxes leads to good public services such as transport.

Is his positive view justified?

Mjølnerparken, and Blågårds Plads (altho' I will admit this was some years ago now).

We love Sweden - we can’t go back now to Sweden or Denmark without jumping through a lot of hoops as we work for ourselves- means umbrella companies and even then not guaranteed but we would go back in a heartbeat - only came back due to elderly relative ill health situation - now wishing we had held out and looked at other solutions.

Mini ikeas! I'd love to see those! Might actually come over to Sweden next summer for my holiday, try out the new train connection from Finland.

I hear Sweden's alcohol restrictions are worse than Finland's, Finland really opened up its restrictions over the last two governments so now you can buy wine in supermarkets (but only up to a certain percentage - big market here now for lower alcohol wine) and strong beers and Alko has just been allowed to open on Sundays. And home delivery of booze is coming in. Still the 9pm restriction though.

Slight tangent here but I so wish uk supermarkets would stock low alcohol wines and not just no alcohol wines. They used to stock some low ones but now it’s all that no
muck grape juice.

Ah that's a pity. Though not sure you're missing much, tried a couple and wasn't a fan.

I can only add that we are led to believe that are beautiful healthy people, tall, slim, blonde and blue eyes. Sounds rare and perfect!

Er not exactly - but on the whole a lot of the Dane’s in Copenhagen were certainly a good looking and pretty fit bunch - at all ages - male and female - obviously not all, but the percentage was much higher than the uK

I know it’s Nordic rather than Scandinavian but I once had reason to spend time with a large contingent of athletes from Greenland and my WORD I have never encountered a more good-looking group of people 😳

I don’t know if it’s universal but Systembolaget in DH’s home town closes at 6pm! Just when you might get the idea to have a BBQ and a glass of wine, no deal 😣

When we were first in Denmark I used to really be shocked at the amount of 6ft fit Viking type guys complete with strollers or baby pappooses regularly out on their own with babies or young kids seemingly ‘enjoying’ themselves - picnics, cafes, on bikes, kayaking, it was a bit of an eye opener !

To be fair Swedish DH seems to be bit of an outlier here in Britain for being so involved with DS. Since he was tiny he’s taken him out on his own like it’s totally natural (because it is!) but often gets either the suspicious side eye or gushing congratulations on being such a good Dad. I’d like to add nobody at the supermarket has ever congratulated me for being out alone with our toddler… 🙄

Having lived in rural Sweden for many years and have also lived in Denmark there are good parts and bad of most countries.

I liked the subsidized childcare where you pay max 3% salary or £120 per month (only £95 in my day) for full time childcare - including all activities (including forest school) and all meals.

If you are not in the major cities housing is fairly easy to come by - even housing association.

Some people make the mistake of thinking that because Swedes speak good English then it is easy to find a job speaking English only - it isn't. Most Swedes speak very good English because they are expected be able to to read Uni textbooks in English. So Employers can easily find staff to speak both. But you get free lessons.

But education is very cheap
-free Swedish lessons for immigrants (and free GCSE/A-level courses at FE college)
-free university tuition + £1,000 a month in grants and fees (non-means tested)
-they can't charge you for anything that happens in school time - so trips etc are free

It does come as a bit of a shock to be charged to see the doctor but appointments are 20-40 minutes

Yes it is very normalised that dads do childcare. I used to sit on the board of an educational institution and the trouble we had fixing meetings as so many of the men couldn't work beyond 3 or 4 pm as they had to pick up from nursery/school.

When my children were in nursery in Finland it was about 50/50 mums and dads doing pick up and drop off, and I see lots of dads at extra curriculars (my bloke has become a football and hockey dad, and helps coach the football team). More and more dads are starting to take advantage of their increased share of parental leave too.

I visit Sweden every year, twice a year. I’m not sure a visit is as accurate as actually living somewhere though. It’s very clean, very beautiful with access to nature. Not much visible poverty. No one really drives ‘old bangers’ like they might here. You don’t see street homelessness. Childcare is insanely cheap. As others have said, conformity is important and it’s hard to get to know people on a deeper level. Drinking culture is different as pubs aren’t really a thing. Drinking at home is popular (even though buying at Systemet (state operated off licence) is a bit of a pain!). Everyone who lives there seems to learn Swedish which I’m impressed by.

It’s only a downside if you want to be economically inactive. I mean, surely it’s obvious that in a high-taxation country which provides a lot for its citizens with that tax, every individual’s economic contribution is valued, hence being a SAHP isnt!

On high taxation, we pay virtually the same percentage of tax in Sweden that we paid in the UK, and we earn a bit more here as well.

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Lucky you!! Mind you, a contigent of athletes is not a representative population sample. For all we will ever know, the rest of Greenland might look like Cabbage Patch dolls 😜

My income tax is 7% lower in Finland than it'd be in the UK. Take home pay is still lower though because of municipal tax but that extra would then go on council tax in the UK so ends up even but I get more back for it (childcare was completely free for me, as was after school club this year)

Reported, takk

When I lived there, home-made spirits aka moonshine was popular - people used to lace the low alcohol beer with it, first and last time I have ever tried home made spirits. I know - it's very dangerous.

I can't find it now but I read a article about the alternative reasons for cheap childcare was that the state did not trust the people to parent, the state believed it could bring up children better than most parents and providing very cheap childcare was designed to encourage parents to willingly give up their kids to the state for parenting.

When I lived there, home-made spirits aka moonshine was popular - people used to lace the low alcohol beer with it, first and last time I have ever tried home made spirits. I know - it's very dangerous.

The Hembränt (moonshine) still exists but is much less prevalent than in the 1990s/2000s unless you are in the sparsely populated North. These days there are (not actually legal) organised groups that buy and bring in booze from the EU and sell it on. In the big city (DD informs me) there are telephone numbers that student parties can ring and 15 minutes later a case of beer or bottle of vodka will be delivered (one of the downsides of not being able to buy at Systembolaget, the state off licence until age 20),

I can't find it now but I read a article about the alternative reasons for cheap childcare was that the state did not trust the people to parent, the state believed it could bring up children better than most parents and providing very cheap childcare was designed to encourage parents to willingly give up their kids to the state for parenting.

I have this - but it certainly sounds like the stuff the far right and Christian Democrats were writing about 15-20 years ago when they wanted to force women from the workforce onto low paid SAHP benefits. Childcare started in the 1800s for working single mothers. The expanded childcare provision goes back to the post-war industrial expansion. Sweden was not badly damaged so industry expanded rapidly in the 1940s-50s - so basically women were needed in the workforce and it needed to be an attractive option - but sure there were some writers on the left who saw it as a social experiment (Alva Myrdal?).

These days there are a lot of options - you don't have to use local authority nurseries. Just in my little, very rural area there are many options LA, Montessori, Steiner Waldorf, Christian, Forest School etc. I was a SAHM for 3½ years but TBH you forgo a lot of working benefits - in particular you never want to lose your earnings related sick/unemployment pay in Sweden as they control sick pay, unemployment benefits, maternity benefits, pensions and other working benefits - (it used to annoy me when I went to aquarobics that I was one of very few that actually paid - most of the others got an hour of paid activity from their employers). You also pay a higher tax rate if you don't work

There was a policy for SAHP in the mid-2000s introduced by the Reinfeldt Government at the urging of far-right and Christian Democrat coalition partners. Parents could be paid to stay at home until their children turned 3 - you got 3,000sek a month (about £240 then and approx $425 today). It was mostly adopted by Conservative councils - but it was controversial and regarded as a trap for women and especially immigrant women who lost access to many earnings related benefits and especially given that parents had many rights and benefits that paid a lot more. In the end only 115 councils (of 390) introduced it, take up was very low, and the policy was abandoned in 2016.

My bloke's brother used to make kilju, which is a sugar wine, as a teenager when he was too young to buy booze. The old ways still carry on.