McCarthy and Stone apartments. What's the worst that can happen?

[Purpleandping]

This living style would suit my DPs and remove the burden of supporting them in their overly large house from me.

From my POV, I don't really care if it's a poor financial decision. It's their money and should be spent on a comfortable life.

My sister, who is a good person, but lives a long way away so isn't involved in the day to day of it, is worried that "we" will have to continue paying charges after their death, if it doesn't sell.

If it's the estate that would pay, I also don't have a problem with that. If their whole estate is swallowed up in paying for this place, to give them a decent life now that's OK. Obviously it would be better if it wasn't but if that's the worse case, that's OK.

DSis is worried that once the estate is spent, the charges would fall to personally. Can that be true?

So, whilst it will ultimately be DP's decision, I'm comfortable if, worst case, all their money is spent, leaving no inheritance, but I wouldn't be comfortable to think I'm committed to paying out of my own money if things were very protracted.

Its a con. It will be an admin nightmare after their death or if they go into care. Radio 4 did a phone in on you and yours a few weeks ago on this subject You should find it on bbc sounds.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/elderly_parents/5003937-mccarthy-and-stone-risks-and-benefits

I dont have personal experience but I've heard not good things about these type of properties

Id be extremely wary of having anything to do with them. If you haven't done already I'm sure you can find loads online

Read the contract/T&Cs very carefully. I understood that families could be liable for charges - particularly if there is a delay in granting probate and/or selling the apartment.

However DFIL had many happy years in a MandS apartment. The communal living, peace of mind of having a warden on site, and the planned activities were great. It was exactly the right decision personally and for his wellbeing if not financially.

It got tricky when he needed more help to live independently. Lots of conversations around how much support he needed and whether it was still classed as independent living. When he did move into a care home the apartment was sold but it was a saturated market, lots of similar apartments for sale and he took a loss on the property just to get rid of it.

A lot of people will say not to touch them with a bargepole but they are popular choices for a reason. Ask lots of questions, read everything VERY carefully and then DPs can decide whether the financial risks are worth it. Also In some properties the manager doesn't live on site so it's worth checking exactly what you're getting.

Yes, this is how I'm feeling about it. I don't care if they make a loss. Afaic it would be just spending their money on somewhere to live that meets their needs. I would care if it absorbs all their money and comes after mine!

I know "everyone" says they're a financial nightmare but I haven't been able to establish if that's because they eat up inheritances or because they cost the families their own money.

My PIL are in a similar development and it has been great for them and for us. They have an active social life and also have support when issues arise (both have fallen and broken bones) and as they become less able.

It is expensive but as they can afford it, it is good value. The upfront cost was high and there are ongoing monthly charges for the level of service/building upkeep. These would have to be paid even if they die as the building etc still needs maintained. The big issue seems to be that if someone lives in a flat for 10 years, it will need updated before anyone wants to move in and in that time the heirs would have to pay for that cost while still paying service fees.

So yes, it would take a lot of the inheritance but also mean a much better quality of life for the elderly person/less burden on the children when alive.

Can they rent one instead?

If you do the maths renting can work out cheaper than buying.

Otherwise if you buy a second hand one you might be able to get a good deal.

There is also a mindset that property always goes up so selling for less than first paid is hard for some to stomach.

This is the but I'm struggling to get my head round. I know charges will have to be paid after they die until it is sold, but do they (their estate) pay or the family? Once the estate funds are depleted what happens then?

It's because you can't sell them for love nor money. M&S want you to sell it back to them for like 50p. They can be rented out but again it's hard to find people.

So you're stuck with these massive service charges once your DPs have passed on. And you're left with a property worth a fraction what they paid, and it's costing you money every single month. And the person who takes it over had to be over 55.

I’m no help I’m afraid, but funnily enough further down my Active page is another thread running on McCarthy and Stone in the Property topic which has about 230 comments so might be worth a read!

That's OK afaic. If the worst case is that the £250k spent on the flat is gone forever, but gives them what they need now, I'm happy with that.

If money is no object and you think they'd benefit from it, then I see why it's tempting. I do understand your sister's views too though. It wouldn't be the money per se, but more the admin involved trying to get rid of the flat after they die and you really just want to move on.

My mother's friend decided to sell her house and rent her M&S apartment rather than buy for this very reason.

Why can't they rent one? That's allowed and seems a sensible option

Have you looked into renting in an assisted living facility? Yes the money disappears, but you are on a month’s notice when you need to terminate the agreement. Also: don’t forget they may need to go into actual care at some point. So being free to change plans js very valuable. I should explain that I speak from experience

Would your parents be happy with that? Are you making the decision for them or are they making the decision?

My MIL lives in one and it has been great. It has removed a massive burden from DH's shoulders. I don't think it will be difficult to sell because it's in a popular block so the ones that come up for sale go quite quickly. But even if it takes a while we don't care as it's been such a positive thing during the last few years of her life.

My parents and in-laws are living in this kind of accommodation. It’s been a brilliant decision for all of them and we’re very glad they are there. FIL now needs a high level of care which is far easier to cater for where he is now and gives him the best chance of living out his days in his own home.

As previous posters have said you need to read the terms and conditions carefully before going ahead as they will vary and with any one company/building there are multiple options you can choose from in terms of how you set up your individual arrangements but everything is made very clear upfront as long as you read it.

Financially it does cost more than where they were previously living and there will be costs to exit when they are gone (all known and agreed upfront as above) I consider it the best use of their money to give them the best possible lifestyle for their remaining years.

Why an M&S? There are other companies. And rentals.

OP, I have 2 friends that have been left with M and S apartments. I after parents died aand they can’t sell it and still have to pay charges. The other has 1 parent left and this parent needs to move on to more advanced care. The apartment won’t sell and the parent needs money for their future care.
Just don’t think this will necessarily be the last stage in your parents life.

Yes rent one and you will then not have the problem if your parents die or need more care.

Yes, this^^

If you don't care about money, you could even rent it for them or pay towards it if you wanted to

Look into renting, which can be funded by income from the funds they would have used to buy (plus some of the capital, maybe). It’s expensive but at least it allows you to walk away (and also allows them to walk away if they change their minds, want to make different arrangements after one of them dies or end up needing nursing care rather than a retirement home).

I know you say you don’t care about the money but the stress of having a liability like this can be considerable for everyone.