McCarthy and Stone apartments. What's the worst that can happen?

[Purpleandping]

This living style would suit my DPs and remove the burden of supporting them in their overly large house from me.

From my POV, I don't really care if it's a poor financial decision. It's their money and should be spent on a comfortable life.

My sister, who is a good person, but lives a long way away so isn't involved in the day to day of it, is worried that "we" will have to continue paying charges after their death, if it doesn't sell.

If it's the estate that would pay, I also don't have a problem with that. If their whole estate is swallowed up in paying for this place, to give them a decent life now that's OK. Obviously it would be better if it wasn't but if that's the worse case, that's OK.

DSis is worried that once the estate is spent, the charges would fall to personally. Can that be true?

So, whilst it will ultimately be DP's decision, I'm comfortable if, worst case, all their money is spent, leaving no inheritance, but I wouldn't be comfortable to think I'm committed to paying out of my own money if things were very protracted.

@Purpleandpingthere are very good reasons why so many posters are advising caution.
See this from BBC news back May.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9v38vk2j0no?app-referrer=deep-link

Agree with people about renting. RRA is now much more tenant friendly and they can move on if their needs change- for instance moving to a care home

They are not really taking advantage. Rather, people buy into them without considering the small print. The terms and conditions are transparent.

However, unlike other properties purchased across our lifespan, these are, sometimes erroneously, assumed to be our final home. In most cases it will fall to the family to deal with what comes next, not the person who purchased it.

The minimum age to buy and /or live there is also transparent and that’s what keeps the initial purchase price lower than “normal” properties on the market.

Don't assume it will be their last home. You will care about the losses to the estate a lot when it reduces the amount available for care home provision.

For a similar cost, could you not find them a little warden controlled bungalow or for the over 50’s bungalow, even a 2 bed to allow for overnight carers. Then buy in care as needed.

My understanding is that any charges your parents pay whist living in the property will continue to be levied upon the estate when they’re gone.
If you sell quickly fine, but if not then costs accrue and the estate is decimated.

Also I’ve watched (living nextdoor) one of these places being built and the walls are paper thin, built on metal framework. I’ve walked through the building site in the evening as the builders went home.

If you leaned against the metal uprights, they bent. I wouldn’t buy one. you’re paying for a lifestyle not for the substance or investment in the building.
Could they use mortgage drawdown to get carers in.

Buying second hand mitigates a lot of the issue as it will have depreciated already from new (also another family will be pleased to off load!) As for the charges check the contract yourselves and get a solicitor experienced in these contracts to do so, unless you sign to say you will be responsible for, it is my understanding they can’t charge you only the estate and once it’s gone it’s gone. I know people very happy in ms properties and people in other similar company properties, depending on where you live they often are pretty reasonable upfront too (about 1/4 of the cost of a “normal” apartment here and the fees do include certain things. Eyes wide open they could be the right choice but buyer beware

MIL lives in one, she adores it, beautiful apartment, loads of friends in the block, lots of activities/outings etc. She went from being really isolated to absolutely thriving at 86.

It will be a complete financial nightmare when she sells, but it is what it is.

In your position I would get the Mc&S leasehold T’s&C’s and consult a good solicitor.

That’s really the best investment you can make for them and yourselves.

If you accept that Mc&S might not be their last home and there may be future care home fees required, your DP’s will need all the money they can out if the sale of the flat.

It could get messy if the flat doesn’t sell and care home fees have to be paid.
We paid my in-laws fees until finances were resolved. So see a solicitor asap.

My uncle bought an M&S flat then died. It took 2 years to sell. Only 1 offer at £245k less than the asking price. The monthly fees still had to be paid out of his estate.

Rent if you can. As others have said it might not be their last home so think what you'd do financially if they needed to move to a nursing home and they couldn't sell the flat.

My mother and father bought a flat of this type - not M and S. They didn't want the responsibility of looking after a biggish house any more. It worked particularly well for my mother after my father died because of the social activities and friendliness if the place.. She stayed there for another 18 years - till her own death before Xmas - and was happy there. It took several months to sell, but it was a particular well situated flat. A key consideration was that the support available from the staff when she got frail, helped to keep her safe and well. In her final years she had carers too. If she had stayed in the old house, there would have been more risks in terms of falls. Lack of in house support, would have meant more calls to her children and more trips up the motorway to sort her out. My feeling is that without the sheltered accommodation my mother would have got lonely - and cognitive decline would probably then set in. She would have been more at risk of accidents, leading to hospital admission and then discharge to a nursing home. So I am inclined to think my parents made the choice that was right for them.

As I said before my mum is in one and is thriving my mil stayed in a house and is now in a home. Money gone either way - but that’s not my point. My DM is doing really well, less stress and lots of support. My mil really struggled after Fil died. She was lonely, no daily contact with anyone, house too big, she couldn’t cope. I’m sure that’s why she went downhill so quickly and I feel so bad for her

My mother in law lived in one for many years and was very happy there. Her own flat, but people around if she wanted them. She loved the garden.
However, when she died it was a nightmare to sell, I think the family were pretty lucky that it did sell to be honest, many stayed on the market for months if not years. Someone has to pay the management fees and they can be thousands of pounds a year, I can’t remember exactly. The estate wasn’t sorted for quite some time, technically the fees came out of the estate but the bulk of the money wasn’t immediately available, I seem to remember there was money in a bank account which we could use, I can’t quite remember. But yes, ultimately the family was responsible for the fees, from the estate, but would have had to find the money when that ran out, as I say , they were very lucky to sell fairly quickly, albeit at a loss. It’s such a shame, as she really did enjoy living there, but they can become a financial nightmare.

That's true, but renting gives them the advantages of living in a community they want to be in without the problem of what happens if they have to go into residential care but are unable to sell the flat and have to continue paying the service charges, or ultimately what happens after they have died. It's worth considering or at least working out roughly how many years they could live there on the money raised by investing the money from selling their current home.

It’s not so much that there might be nothing left in the estate but what if they eventually need a care home and can’t sell to pay for it? I’d look for similar accommodation but rented.

There's a cautionary tale here OP: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/891af5cf9c26b922

I think the problem is that very few of these flats are available to rent.

I agree. Unfortunately people are buying them without doing "due diligence" and without thinking of the future (i.e. when they need to move or when they die).

There's nothing inherently wrong with M&S. DH and I have looked into a large development near us, we've done a few viewings, but more importantly, we've read the T&Cs carefully, had sight of the draft contract etc.

We're not quite ready to buy one (the ones we've viewed weren't particularly suitable for us for a few reasons) but we're still keeping our eyes open - if the "perfect" one comes up for sale, we'll be buying it (perfect means right floor, right view/aspect, right size etc).

We'd be buying in full knowledge of the ongoing costs and potential pitfalls in later years (or for our son as NOK). We've discussed with our DS at length so that he is aware of the consequences/pitfalls and he's right behind us as he knows the benefits to us of living there.

We're also only looking at buying those that have been reduced, and certainly nowhere near the "new" prices - someone else can "suffer" the depreciation of the grossly over-priced "new" prices that lots of people have paid.

We're also looking at other "over 55" developments in our town but none, so far, match the facilities/quality/location of the M&S complex. But we're looking at one small block (independent freeholder, not a chain) in a different city which we'd like to use as a short term "holiday home" which is looking like a possibility. (If we sell our current family home, we can afford two small "retirement" flats!) - the one in the different city has flats selling remarkably cheaply, but that's because they're older and need renovation, which again, is something older people are less likely to want to do and they're not attractive to professional property developers, whereas we'd love the challenge, especially if we don't have to live in it whilst it's being renovated!

I still think the PP should be reviewed to allow younger people to buy/rent them to help the housing shortage. It's insane the sheer number of "empty" retirement flats that are left empty for months/years. They're flats that would suit younger people, maybe not those with children, but certainly professional singles/couples who are less likely to be nosiy/disruptive to the older residents living in the same places. Obviously not for the blocks with "services" for older people like wardens, communal lounges, etc., but lots of the over 55 blocks don't have facilities like that and are literally just like other small blocks of flats.

They are quite hard to sell. Have you seen if you can rent one. Sometimes you can.