McCarthy and Stone apartments. What's the worst that can happen?

[Purpleandping]

This living style would suit my DPs and remove the burden of supporting them in their overly large house from me.

From my POV, I don't really care if it's a poor financial decision. It's their money and should be spent on a comfortable life.

My sister, who is a good person, but lives a long way away so isn't involved in the day to day of it, is worried that "we" will have to continue paying charges after their death, if it doesn't sell.

If it's the estate that would pay, I also don't have a problem with that. If their whole estate is swallowed up in paying for this place, to give them a decent life now that's OK. Obviously it would be better if it wasn't but if that's the worse case, that's OK.

DSis is worried that once the estate is spent, the charges would fall to personally. Can that be true?

So, whilst it will ultimately be DP's decision, I'm comfortable if, worst case, all their money is spent, leaving no inheritance, but I wouldn't be comfortable to think I'm committed to paying out of my own money if things were very protracted.

You can't sell without probate first though.

You can. The executors can dispose of assets as part of distributing the estate.

Executors can't sell until probate granted

No you need probate first. We are in the middle of this right now. Weren't allowed to put the properties on the market until we had probate.(Confirmation in Scotland) You can't distribute any assets until probate is granted. Our solicitor was quite clear on this.

You need probate granted to be able to sell. So whoever inherits the flat will be liable for charges while sale is going through.

M&S will not buy it back. But they do restrict who can buy the property (by age, capability etc) so can effectively veto buyers, if they are at risk

A friend of mine was trying to sell his father's m&s property. Multiple people who tried to buy were vetoed my M&S as they were "not suitable for independent living". Coincidentally, M&S were building a new facility 10mins drive away. One of those buyers is now living in the new build block instead. Perhaps they were assessed by different people and were a borderline case, but...

Also pretty much everyone prices these places to sell. But they are still tricky and it takes ages

Why do you think that? They don’t generally have access to any assets to distribute until probate is granted - only small sums and reasonable funeral expenses etc.

Could work better to sell up , invest the money and rent a similar retirement property. It will reduce their assets but at least the can leave if they need to hopefully with some money left, and their heirs won't inherit a nightmare.

But you can't sell a property without probate

Probate has to go through and the property has to be yours - otherwise you'd be selling someone else else's property.

You can get the property ready to sell and market it but no contracts can be exchanged which means estate agents are unlikely to take you on.

Yes I believe you would have to pay all the charges till the flat is sold. It's meant to be a bit of a nightmare for those left behind. As can only be sold to folk over a certain age and would be competing with all the new builds. Just look into carefully and weigh things up.

I suppose it might be possible for your parents to write in their will that the property is to be inherited by someone else, not you - a charity perhaps. Then it would be their problem to sort out, and they would have to pay any charges.

One option might be for your parents to specify in their wills that the executors are to sell once probate is granted and distribute the proceeds (rather than simply saying they leave everything to you and your sibling(s))- that would avoid the flat coming out of the estate. Doesn’t address the issues if your parents need to move while alive though.

I’d really recommend they take advice.

Not lived through the end game yet as my parents, who moved to one of these apartments in 2022, are still alive. My dad has gone into a nursing home but my mum is still living there. It suits her very well, both in terms of a community and nice activities on-site, sufficient support for her needs from the house-manager, and the physical layout. She’s made the apartment look great, she has a pretty courtyard garden with French doors from her sitting room, and she has never had a better kitchen or bathroom. We will be liable for service charges after the flat ceases to be occupied and until it’s sold, but I think those charges can be deferred until sale and probate. And we, the surviving family and executors are not relying upon anything from our parents’ estate to support our own lives, so we will set a price that undercuts everything else and sell fast like that.

@Purpleandping but presumably there would still be money in the estate from the unsold property? So any ongoing charges would be set against the eventual sale if all other funds are depleted? I don't see how M&S could come after family members as personal liability unless this is part of the initial contract of sale which you would have to sign up to.
As far as the M&S properties are concerned, I think in general there is a risk/likelihood that they will sell on for less. However, in our seaside town the M&S development is very popular, properties coming back on the market sell quickly and sold prices have increased. It's worth scrutinising sold prices on Rightmove / Zoopla to get an idea of how developments of interest have been performing.

@BigSkies2022 this sounds like the ideal scenario.

But, @Purpleandping what if one or both of your parents needed care, and to sell the m&S place to fund it? This is a very real possibility. Several posters have flagged it but you haven't responded.

Get them to move into a nice bungalow and look into domiciliary care. Much more flexible for future care needs.

Bungalows are pretty hard to come by.

But someone surely has to actually inherit the property. How can the executors just sell it? They won’t own it, even after probate.

I think it can depend where you live. A relative lives in one, service charges aren’t horrendous. Also I wouldn’t recommend buying new one as they do seem to initially depreciate in value.

But I assume service charges etc are payable if you inherit any type of property that has these type of charges, not just M&S retirement flats.

You or their beneficiaries will have to fund the flat totally after death, unless you are able to sell or let the property. It is a contract for their life and yours until sold.

Yes, you end up paying if the estate runs out of money. They are difficult to sell on. I think R4 Moneybox had several episodes on this.

You need advice from a very good property solicitor in person before even looking at these properties. If it is decided they are suitable for everyone's circumstances buy one that has been owned previously as they are about one-third of the price of a new one.

You don't actually have to have it inherited. One of the properties in my FIL estate was not mentioned in the will at all. Just that the first property went to X and the remainder of the estate was to go to y and z. The house hasn't been bought when the will was made. So actually my husband and his cousin as the executors just sell the property as it remains in the estate and distribute the proceeds and the remainder of the estate pays the selling costs. So the OPs parents could say that the flat gets sold and the proceeds distributed. This means that the executory drags on until all is sold but the estate is responsible for the fees etc. It means m&s come after the estate (via the executors) it depends who is getting the rest of the estate and how much cash there is in it if the estate can pay the fees. It's complex and can use up a lot of time and money. But would save the daughter or whoever is to inherit being responsible although they could go after the beneficiaries of the estate to cough up in advance to get their fees. OP needs clarity on this

No, the executors can just sell once probate is granted- no need to transfer to beneficiaries if the will allows for this.

Forgot to add Charities will not take these properties on as they are a very big liability. There are too many caveats for this type of purchase for me and I would discourage anyone to purchase one. Rent one? Yes.