3 year old injured by crocodiles - man arrested

[DecisionTime123]

So I assume the man deliberately placed the child into the crocodile enclosure. Psychopath? Sounds similar to the man who threw the boy off the Tate?

(And also, not connected but these places are shit for the animals and should be shut down)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czx50n2vj74o

(& apologies if thread already started?)

Very much agree with all of this. I found in my role that violence and injury towards the staff was downplayed. After an incident staff were expected to complete online reporting, but they were not given any time to do this or more importantly even recover from a distressing and harmful incident. We were expected to just carry on due to lack of staffing to take over. Because of this, quite often incidents went unreported and SLT seemed very happy about that. I made a point of reporting all incidents and encouraged staff to do the same. As a result I was questioned as to why I couldn't deal with challenging behaviour as I had too many incident forms. It is also in the student's best interests that all incidents are reported as analysing trigger points etc should lead to better care and appropriate support ratios.

SEN schools and residential settings that are run as a business with the priority to make profits is a disaster.

And adult services is even worse as there is even less funding allocated yet the businesses still prioritise profits.

As a parent I am aware I have no choice but to throw every single adult in a position of responsibility who doesn't safeguard my child adequately straight under the bus.

I don't particularly care how well they are paid. They still have a safeguarding responsibility. And I also think that unless I do it I fail the staff too, because it does eventually go over their heads to management if handled correctly.

Also on the point of risk assessments, I've seen them used really well but I've also sadly seen them used as a tick box exercise. Quite often the staff member whose name was put down as the lead hadn't even been given the time to look at it before going out. It's an important document that puts the responsibility onto an individual and woild be used in any potential tribunal, police investigation, court case etc. Staff who question and highlight any issues are so often labelled as obstructive or killjoys. I became very disillusioned as when things did go wrong the SLT and the board used staffnas a scapegoat for not following the correct procedures.

Absolutely, parents should do this.

Yes I could have sympathy for both but I don’t. Why should I? Do you think because the man who committed this crime apparently has learning difficulties we must automatically sympathise with him? Because presumably you wouldn’t feel any sympathy for a NT man who did this?

The perpetrator of this crime would simply be an evil man who also happens to have additional needs.

That poster also stated that actually the 3 yo is going to look back on being thrown into the crocodile enclosure, being bitten and having scars and broken bones as a cool experience!

The number of people who don't understand the purpose of how risk assessments work is frightening.

I had a parent going on about safeguarding the other week. She was clueless but her friend went on about how she had experience working with children. She spoke like she was the only one who understood safeguarding.

They need challenging. All of them. Every single damn time.

Really? Because yesterday you seemed to be blaming the parents and the innocent toddler for the actions of a seriously unwell grown man whose carers apparently couldn’t predict that he would act violently.

It’s frightening @RedToothBrush i know of experienced qualified staff who are no longer willing to engage in unsafe practice due to shoddy “risk assessments” signed off by senior team management who yes are business/financial managers but have fuck all actual educational experience or actually care. Ts all about keeping the budget down…

Which strangely you seem delighted about 🙄🤦🏼‍♀️

I think there probably will be a trial unless the man pleads guilty won't there? A crime has been committed, the man having LD doesn't necessarily excuse him of responsibility for the crime - it's quite possible that diminished responsibility will come into play but that's for a court to decide.

But the police and courts need to be left to do their jobs, I'm sure a lot more will come out eventually, like in the Tate gallery case.

I suppose it depends if he has capacity to plead

I guess we're a long way from that decision. The police have to gather evidence and the CPS have to decide whether or not to prosecute.

I have thought long and hard about posting on this thread because I find it utterly depressing, but here goes. First this was an absolutely terrible incident for everyone involved particularly the little boy and his family. From what I have read, and obviously we don’t know for sure, this man seems to be similar in some ways to my adult daughter who has severe learning disabilities including autism. She is rarely aggressive but can push or hit if she feels anxious in a situation. So clearly we take her to places where this won’t happen, because, as many people have pointed out, everyone deserves the right to a day out without being attacked. However she can be unpredictable. Something we’re not aware of could trigger her, so we’re constantly on the alert . Also she doesn’t understand consequence or cause and effect. If she does something annoying we can get very cross and she doesn’t like it but it won’t stop her doing it again. So the idea that putting this man on trial or in prison (!) is cruel and ridiculous. He wouldn’t understand. He probably doesn’t understand what he’s done. Certainly there needs to be an investigation into the carers’ role and into safeguarding. But sometimes, you know, terrible things happen and it’s not really anyone’s fault. The other thing I draw from this thread is the feeling that there are quite a lot of people who would prefer not to see people like my daughter out and about at all. I find this sad.
Just to add: the case of the Tate attacker is not really comparable. He has a severe mental health condition and a personality disorder. He is not learning disabled.

@pollyhemlock - I’m sure most people don’t think this way. I think people were horrified about this particular incident, and it has shone a light on perhaps how some individuals are not being supervised adequately or that the carers are not physically able to intervene if things go wrong.

I see LD people out and about and all is well. I had a little group descend on my dog for a cuddle session the other day; the carers were so nice. Otoh I have encountered “scary” men (punched once, hugged out of the blue in Sainsbury’s) and I do wonder why they are with female carers. I know that’s who is available, but sadly if there is not a burly person to accompany them then their trips should be seriously reconsidered.

@pollyhemlock If she does something annoying we can get very cross and she doesn’t like it but it won’t stop her doing it again. So the idea that putting this man on trial or in prison (!) is cruel and ridiculous. He wouldn’t understand
so if this man wouldn’t understand what he’s done wrong and is likely to do it again, what do you suggest?

@pollyhemlock Thank you for being so honest and open. You sound like a wonderful parent.

“But sometimes, you know, terrible things happen and it’s not really anyone’s fault.”

However, this sentence stands out. A three year old did not accidentally fall into a crocodile pit, a man lifted him up and dropped him in it. Whether he thought he was being kind, and letting the boy have a closer look, or whether he was being malicious, we don’t know. We also don’t know if the man has mental capacity or not.

I get what you’re saying that he not be aware of his actions, and/or a random trigger may have sparked him to act. However, these aren’t get-out-of-jail cards.

I hope this incident doesn’t deter carers taking people with learning difficulties to places such as these, but ensures that their policies, procedures and practice are a bit more robust.

There may well be a "trial of the facts" which is usually what happens if a defendant is considered unfit to plead.

Like Jeffrey Donaldson's wife.

Well actually they are get out of jail cards . If someone is learning disabled to the extent that they lack mental capacity then they are not subject to the same legal sanctions as someone of normal capacity. For obvious reasons. It’s why we don’t put very young children through criminal proceedings. I agree that there’s a case for reviewing safeguarding procedures in cases involving mentally disabled adults though in my experience they are already quite stringent. Always subject to human error though.

He should have been remanded to the hospital.

Not just bailed back to care unit, which needs to be investigated.

I don't think anywhere has said where he has been bailed to?
But he wont have just walked out the police station and been free to walk the streets.

I don’t think anyone has suggested (may have missed it) that he’s free to roam the streets?

As he hasn’t been remanded to hospital, it’s not unreasonable to assume he’s been bailed to his current care facility? Although we don’t know for sure, of course.

And there needs to be an investigation into wherever he was, regardless if that’s where he’s gone back to or not.

Maybe not so much here... but definitely on social media. I think people watch too many soaps and get their experience of bail from that... "off you go, don't leave the country. We will see you in two months" sort of thing.
A hospital or his facility... he wont be leaving anyway.

It is an awful thing all round. If it is shown the carers were negligent, then he was horribly failed by them.