Keeping a UK Council property for life even though you no longer live in the UK

[Vintlet]

This story has just been released
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyxkeny8x6o
It seems so unfair given the lack of social housing in the uk that the First Lady of Sierra Leone expected to be allowed to keep her London social housing property as a pied a terre. Surely we cannot be expected to house the world. No one in authority would have realised given that she was still paying the rent if she hadn’t boasted about keeping it on a radio interview. I wonder how many people keep and sublet uk council properties when they no longer have a right to keep it.

Are you Peggy Mitchell? - "hanging onto it for the faaaaahmily"!

I believe that in some circumstances there can be a legacy tenancy, if the person is child of the tenant and has always lived there, but just a one time thing. It cant be passed on again. Im sure some one will come along and correct me if Im wrong

Totally agree. And it's not hard to implement. Get rid of the selfish piss takers.

Not a consolation to you but if you are evicted due to your ll selling up then they’re not allowed to re-let the property for 12 months otherwise they’re in for a a fine of up to £40k and believe me the councils are on to this as it’s money for them.

They would be incredibly foolish to re-let within 12 months if their intention is not to sell.

Councils in the north do, council tenants add their (adult) child to the “rent book”

I live on a road with mixed social housing and privately owned. There have been some tenants that are problematic. Next door has recently been let to new tenants. The property had repairs etc before they moved in but they have expended their own labour and resources to make it spic and span - just like you would if you bought your own home and could afford to do so. Because it is their home. They are as equally proud as a house owner. In fact I have been a bit lazy of late and they put me to shame.

This situation is fairly common like any other breach of tenancy. It’s dealt with every day.

however, you seem frustrated no one realised earlier and ended the tenancy

how do you envisage that would’ve been identified before now?

A bit like Arthur Scargill and the very nice Barbican flat the Miners Union were paying £34,000 a year for, which, understandably, the good socialist didn’t want to leave. He had already tried to buy it under right to buy!

Because there isn't the smaller stock to move them to. I thought we all knew that?

I guess your next suggestion will be to move these single (oh my god, single!!) pensioners from their homes INTO the one bedroom B&Bs?

A friend of mine is on the tenancy of a council house with her mother. A few years back that would give her the right of 'succession', to take the tenancy on alone when her mother is no longer there. It was allowed to happen just once. In our area that is no longer the case and the housing officers have made it very clear that the council will take the house back when her mother moves on, and she will be re-homed in accommodation with one bedroom.
So don't count your chickens.

That doesn’t mean anything. There is no rent book. There is a tenancy contract which specifies whether or not there is succession.

most landlords took succession out of tenancy agreements decades ago. Of course the old ones that have it are still valid legal contracts.

Also just to add that I've just noticed this lady's council place is in Southwark, which is where me and my friend lived. Out of my friend's landlord's in Elephant and Castle:

One was a sham landlord who didn't even provide heating and housed undocumented people in one of the flats (probably charging them insane rent). He tried to charge my friend for electricity and water for the whole building. I investigated him and turned out he was a sri-lanken national builder convicted of using slave labour on one of his sites.

One was a Nigerian national, London bus driver who was housed in one of Elephant & Catle's redevelopments - he sublet 3 out of 4 of the bedrooms and was staying somewhere else most of the time and frequently abroad,

The third was an English guy in a 3 bed maisonnette flat - the one that burnt down. He was also hardly there so presumabely staying somewhere else.

These were all single men in family-sized properties which they were subletting, while homeless local women and children were stuck in bedsits for years on end. It infuriated me so each time my friend moved out I reported them. Don't know if anything was done though and I suspect not.

By the way I am very liberal person and my son is mixed race. I'm heavily in favour of multi-culturalism and I love London's vibrancy - I've commented on nationality but it's not about that for me, it's more that I think the biggest issue is the system is so lax and lets people take advantage of it. Absolutely people should be assessed on a regular basis and I don't believe the policy of council houses for life is a good one as there is a shortage which means families are housed in temporary or private housing which is insecure for them and expensive for the tax payer.

That’s exactly what I was thinking of.
Some controlling old wifie who thinks she’s Queen of the family

Just realised. Not even the president, the First Lady.

You seriously expected Council staff to know this. Are they expected to google every tenant in case one turns out to be related to a world leader?

There are always Council jobs going. Go work in housing if you’re qualified. Since you know everything.

And all the people wanting everyone thrown out the second they are doing better… you want estates to be pleasant and safe, right? Longstanding tenants make that more likely, like in the old days. Only housing desperate people, and throwing them out the second they aren’t, makes people miserable and insecure and makes estates dangerous.

Everyone thinks they know everything about housing. People who work in housing are often highly qualified, hardworking and intelligent. You just don’t see the full picture.

No it's because she's black 🙄

(the white pensioners in Tenerife doing the same don't do interviews where they talk about it!!!)

But no, no, definitely because she's black.

Well, of course, if the tenant pays their rent and is a decent tenant, the property is theirs for life. That’s the whole point.

Wasn’t it also an issue in Grenfell Tower? If I remember rightly the government had to give immunity of prosecution to those who were illegally subletting flats there, in order to help with the identification of victims’ bodies.

I imagine that renting a council house at a low rate and subletting it at the market rate is a pretty lucrative business, especially in London.

Nope, it’s the law that tenancy succession is tightly controlled now, and restricted to one succession only. Doesn’t matter whereabouts in England you are. (Localism Act 2011, apparently. Every day’s a school day.)

It’s not just because she’s black and foreign. It’s because she’s the ‘first lady’ of her native country, and therefore presumably not short of a bob or two with which to pay for her own accommodation in London, if she wants it.

As for saying her children are British citizens, the last time I looked, being a British citizen does not in itself entitle you to a subsidised council flat!

This sort of abuse absolutely infuriates people who are in genuine/desperate need of suitable affordable housing.

And I’d ask how on earth Southwark council needed 12 months to investigate this!

Many years ago it was common for the council to employ housing officers who would indeed go round to check the houses. This was to check what state the house was kept in - it was part of the tenancy to keep it in a good state both inside and out. If there were shortcomings the tenant would be warned of further action( it was before my time so not clear what exactly would then happen although I know the fear of eviction was ever present).

The other part was ,of course ,to check if the tenants were the same ones who had signed the tenancy agreement. If there was nobody home when they called on spec a card would be left to contact the office to make an appointment.

The housing officer kept records of the houses they had confirmed the tenancies of and the state of each house on their patch. I dont know when that all stopped but I did have a friend in the 70s who wasnt happy that the HO had run her finger along the skirting board to check for dust.

Imagine that happening now!

It's not how it should work though is it? You should have it for the time you need it (which may be forever), IF and when you can afford to buy your own place or rent at market value, you should be made to do so. So that someone in need then gets it. Not have it forever and then be able to pass it on to whoever in your family.

A lot of my DH's family have council houses, moved here from abroad. It blows my mind that now they all have their businesses and do well financially they STILL get to stay in the council houses (most in central London, in parts where you and I could never afford!!!) and always will be able to from the looks of it.

I grew up in social housing. My parents divorced and one was take off the tenancy, because of that change it wasn’t allowed to be passed onto any of us when we were living there and our dad died. I live in a council house now and I’d not want to live in it for life. I only do because of disability, it’s been adapted for me. But if I even got a half decent wage or came into money I’d be outta here. I can’t understand it, it’s for people who need them at the time. None of my family have council homes now. Half the time the council don’t have the money to maintain them well either. I don’t want to pass on mine for my children. I hope they do better in life and won’t need to have my home.

Maybe the council did not know who the president of Sierra Leone was, even less the name of their First Lady, but there must be some checks if foreign, or British citizens who are council housing tenants have property in their home country. Easy enough to check with the equivalent Land Registry.

This is madness. Why do we provide pied-a-terres in the UK or even property that is sublet?

There’s a lovely bit in Plato’s Protagoras where he discusses society, and the way society can tolerate a few parasites, but there is a tipping point when it reaches critical mass, and then it becomes unsustainable.
Food for thought.

we're well past beyond this point
long time ago