Keeping a UK Council property for life even though you no longer live in the UK

[Vintlet]

This story has just been released
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyxkeny8x6o
It seems so unfair given the lack of social housing in the uk that the First Lady of Sierra Leone expected to be allowed to keep her London social housing property as a pied a terre. Surely we cannot be expected to house the world. No one in authority would have realised given that she was still paying the rent if she hadn’t boasted about keeping it on a radio interview. I wonder how many people keep and sublet uk council properties when they no longer have a right to keep it.

But she hasn't been allowed to keep it. Reform mugs are clueless.

It's called hate and ignorance.

That's because you didn't read it properly.

Thank you @SheilaFentiman . I just used an AI summary which linked to various reports. Your report may well be more up to date. I have just scanned it and it looks really interesting.
I don't know if you are prepared to highlight bits from the report? This sentence caught my eye from the intro to the report.
'With only scant information on tenancy fraud detection available, the housing sector is effectively blind to what is happening at national and regional level to fight such fraud.'
I am going out now otherwise I would summarise some of the key findings.

Exactly this.
But people will still tell you this doesn’t happen…

That is very true. I do know someone who moved from their three bed family home into a single bed flat, but that was quite a few years ago. It was also right over the other side of town which may have suited her as it was close to a lot of amenities, but many people will want to stay in their immediate area because of the support network they have probably built up over the years.

From an emotional point of view, it must be hard for a lot of people to uproot themselves from what they consider to be their family home. My 81 year old widowed friend still lives in her three bed council house and definitely doesn't want to move. She loves her garden and it's also handy for when her two youngest grandchildren come to stay. Perhaps people's mindset will change when the new limited leases become established.

Well said!

If they were doing it before Brexit they likely have Spanish residence rights, especially if they own or part own a property. It is still possible post Brexit but takes a bit longer.

There are many Brits who have residence rights across Spain and Portugal and so long as they are paying the required taxes in both the UK and their Winter country they can access services in both. If they live fully in Spain/other and don’t pay taxes in the UK their right to use the NHS expires after a few years (5 years last I checked). If they return after their NHS access has expired they have to pay a premium for the first couple of years to regain access.

Denmark can be stricter on public housing because like most of Europe it has a functioning private rental market.

If you operate the rental market as a free for all where a family with children or a good longstanding tenant can be booted out with one months notice you put massive pressure on public housing, that being the only form of secure housing for the slice of population who will never afford to buy.

Most of Europe has clearly defined short, medium and long term contract models giving more security to both tenant and landlord, more professional landlords and less hobby landlords who are trying to milk both income and capital growth from one or two properties.

Rather than forcing people like your 81 year old friend out of her long term home it would be better to offer local alternatives. The 81 year old may not want to leave her current home but many will move if eg there were local two bed bungalows with small gardens or low rise apartments with communal gardens. Its also more cost effective in terms of health and social care to keep family groups together rather than forcing older people into new areas with no social links.

Oh it happens, its always happened. Where are the news reports on all the white tenants pulling the same scam?

I grew up in overcrowded second tier public housing because my parents had no connections in the housing office. It was corrupt as fuck and as pp have pointed out - transparency in allocations is a problem and has always been a problem both under council and HA control.

Every estate has subletting going on, the worse the estate, the more likely there is to be subletting. This example has hit the press because the fraudster is very wealthy and the fact that she is black plays well into the “immigrants taking all our houses”. Where is the press investigation into general public housing corruption on eg all white estates around the country? Its just as prevalent as in London or other more diverse areas.

Ed to add - its also worth noting that the illegal subletting at scale is part of organised crime in a good number of the bigger estates.

I absolutely agree! She could, of course, go into sheltered accommodation, and there are plenty of those properties in our immediate area. Long waiting lists though as obviously you have to wait for someone to move in with family, move into a care home, or die. In her case, I know she wouldn't want to move anyway. She is very well in herself and physically fit. When she comes round to me for lunch roughly once a fortnight, she always walks a mile each way. She is regularly out and about walking somewhere.

I think the Fatima Bio is a news story not because she is black but because she is first lady of Sierra Leone and lives in a palace. I have repeatedly said that. @C8H10N4O2 do you think if Melania Trump (white and a First Lady) kept a council flat in London as a bolt hole, the press would ignore it? Please answer . It is so easy to claim she is being picked on because she is black. She is utterly greedy and entitled.

If you read my post I said it was both her wealth and race which made it a front page news story. I stand by that.

Why do you think there is so little press and public interest in general corruption? The fraud happening in the (mostly white occupied) general public housing stock? Its not because there is a shortage of fraud.

I knew a man who sub let his Council flat. The Council found out about it after a tip off, they were asked to leave and his tenancy was rescinded, and he was white.

It is a news story in it's own right, Highlighted when Fatima Bio gave a BBC interview and mentioned that she still had her London Council flat. You cannot ban news stories because someone is black or white or Bulgarian. Does the fact that she was black negate her committing a crime? As far as I know she was not prosecuted or fined. The story is at pains to point out that she was not evicted but persuaded to give up the tenancy.
There is widespread housing fraud for a number of reasons one of which is immigrants arrive in the UK, are given housing and when they go home they keep the tenancy and sublet.
Look up the news story about Sliven in Bulgaria where lots of local residents had UK social housing in their names. It was a £54 million fraud. Should it not be a news story because they are foreign?

The story is at pains to point out that she was not evicted but persuaded to give up the tenancy.

It would be a waste of time and money to start eviction proceedings if they could be avoided by asking/persuading someone to surrender their tenancy.

Imagine how many council houses you could build for £54 million or is that picking on the poor Bulgarians? it is theft and corruption.

Does the fact that she was black negate her committing a crime?

Is it a crime? It’s certainly a breach of contract but I don’t know if it is a crime. Happy to be informed either way.

@Vintlet is it this story?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/30/bulgaria-benefits-fraud-town-sliven/

Obviously bloody awful, but £54m wasn’t made solely from social housing. It was from a lot of fraudulent UC claims. ETA I don’t know that there was evidence the Bulgarians in question were actually living - even short term - at any addresses they claimed and thus preventing others using the social housing. I think the organised crime gangs tried a multitude of false addresses.

https://www.eurojust.europa.eu/news/criminals-behind-multi-million-benefit-fraud-convicted-united-kingdom-eurojust-support

If I have the wrong story, please link the right one.

You could say that about any house you are likely to inherit.

I’m familiar with the Sliven story - it also plays into the “awful immigrant” story and of course those convicted were not all white. The size of the fraud from one gang was the main reason for it hitting the front page, their immigration status was played up in some of the tabloids and clearly linked to the fraud. East Europeans have had a pretty rough press in the UK over the past 15 years or so.

I note you are still having problems comprehending my post - I suggest you read it again and read what it says, rather than what you want it to say.

Do tenants pay inheritance tax when their tenancies are passed on?

From memory it depends on the level of the fraud and the involvement of the tenant. There is a lower level of offence to accommodate tenants operating under duress and not profiting. Intentional fraud is a crime and if it involves multiple properties it triggers a higher offence (and is likely to be part of organised crime) like the Bulgarian case which was a gang defrauding both housing and DWP.

we all know white people abuse the system. No matter how many people say this, there are plenty who will say you are attacking the vulnerable. But this particular article was about a person living the life of indulgence, overseas.