Keeping a UK Council property for life even though you no longer live in the UK

[Vintlet]

This story has just been released
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyxkeny8x6o
It seems so unfair given the lack of social housing in the uk that the First Lady of Sierra Leone expected to be allowed to keep her London social housing property as a pied a terre. Surely we cannot be expected to house the world. No one in authority would have realised given that she was still paying the rent if she hadn’t boasted about keeping it on a radio interview. I wonder how many people keep and sublet uk council properties when they no longer have a right to keep it.

It’s an issue everywhere, more so in London as it’s desirable, but also it seems more because you have so many large blocks densely populated with hundreds of flats- you’d get similar in an area with hundreds of houses but less noticeable

That shouldn't be the point though, should it?

Social housing is discounted housing for people who cannot afford to rent privately or buy, due to their circumstances.

If you are poor or cannot work or etc etc and therefore the state subsidises your housing (because otherwise you would be on the streets) - if you then later become well/increase your earnings such that you then can afford to buy or rent privately - surely the state's safety net has done its job, you then move out of social housing and live unsubsidised, onwards and upwards.

Or have I got that completely wrong?

I think there are circumstances where transferring the tenancy on the death of the original tenant is appropriate. For example, where an unmarried son or daughter has always lived with their parent and has been their carer for a number of years. Passing the tenancy on to a sibling who has never lived there just to 'keep it in the family' is a different matter entirely.

The north of england is still subject to the same laws everywhere else is - as a former council tenant of 'the north' - you could only pass a tenancy on once and to someone who was a family member who lived at the property.

That was the case back in the early 2000s, so certainly won't have reverted now!

We live opposite flats, many of which are social housing.
I mentioned the flats to a neighbour recently as there seemed to be scaffolding going up. In the general chit chat about them apparently it’s fairly well known in our road that 2 of flats have no one living in them…
One had a chap living there until about 10 years ago, he then moved in with his girlfriend, he keeps it just incase the relationship breaks down .
apparently the other occupant moved away for work that also offered accommodation. Not sure how long he’s been gone.
They are little one bedroom flats in a popular area, it’s a shame that 2 lie essentially not being used….People must know the specific flats that aren’t being occupied.
I always assumed that random checks were done to check tenants were still there but I guess unless someone reports them empty then no one is any the wiser.

And this is exactly why social housing needs a complete overhaul. Cancel all lifetime tenancies, 5 years max with a review of eligibility each time. Stop all subsidies, housing should be full market rent to prevent these incentives. Of course that will mean in some cases that people’s housing allowance will increase by the same amount, but it would immediately prevent all this type of abuse and mean the we stop subsidising people that don’t need help. Profits made by councils and housing associations from the market rents should go back into providing more social housing, particularly smaller accessible houses suitable for downsizing pensioners.

Different housing associations will gave different rules. I know of somebody who looked after his mum when she was terminally ill, and was then able to take over her tenancy. He's not a piss taker, he works, always has done and I was glad he'd been able to do that, as he'd given up his own tenancy to nurse her, so if he hadn't been able to take it over, he would have had to clear her house and find somewhere else to live, in 2 weeks, all while grieving and trying to arrange the return of medical equipment etc... (that's what you get to clear a house when a resident dies, 2 weeks or they clear it for you).

It’s this sort of thing that I think needs to be stopped. We can’t house everyone for ever. For me council properties should be for a certain amount of years. If you want something for 5 years then you pay less rent than signing up for 10 or 20 years.

I think this idea of keeping it come he’ll or high water does actually stunt some people. They can’t see further than the cheaper rent. Although given how much a friend pays for her council property which she has had since she was 18 years old (twice the amount of my mortgage on a 5 bed detached in the area) It suddenly dawned on her that she was in a better position than me when I bought and she started renting. (Her b/f now husband out earned mine and always has)

She is now a bit put out that she will be paying rent for the rest of her life whilst I have no mortgage.

I disagree. Shes a high profile person who is the first lady of a different country. Of course it would attract headlines. Just as it would if Melania Trump had a London council flat. Race has nothing to do with it. Fraud is fraud whoever you are

People always say “build more social housing!” But won’t this just create an ongoing problem? As long as social housing is cheaper than market rents - or in fact free if you don’t work and with no risk of being evicted - then it will be sought after.

Tenants want their dcs all to have council accommodation too - it is unending. And those suggesting salary caps - well, it’s better to be a low-earner with a secure roof over your head.

Dob them in anonymously.

This - this is exactly why you get benefits bashing threads. I absolutely believe in the welfare state for those who need it for the period they need it but too many people take the p**s. I know of 2 single blokes who both earn reasonable salaries who get to live in central London because they qualified for a council flat 20 years ago.

Totally agree

In Germany, to get social housing you need Wohnberechtigungsschein, which must be renewed annually

I've not heard of that, but I'll look it up. It reminds me though, of articles I've read about Sweden, where the government communicates with the population, in a clear and adult way, that the countries generous welfare was only made possible because upwards of 85% of the working population were in paid work and this is what is needed if people want those benefits to continue. More recently, there have been discussions about whether their welfare state can continue as it currently is, fueled by figures showing that in some immigrant communities, between around 15-50% people worked (driven by communities where women are expected to stay in the home for example). It's a very hot topic there. I've never heard or seen our government (of any colour) set it out like that. I think it would be useful for them to do it.

Wohnberechtigungsschein = certificate that you have need of social housing

Known for a few weeks on South London related sites and Southwark Council were pushed into action. Not unknown in the borough sadly, tenancies moved on to relatives, caused issues in one home then we'll give you another so you can terrorise somewhere else, sub-letting, air BnBs, hmo's. ..

Why would you live in one of these properties, unless you absolutely had to? The ones round here are always in bad neighbourhoods, with really disruptive people living close by, people that don't work, stay up all night being loud, and have sofa's and shopping trolleys in their gardens.

Well jolly good for you, all those homeless people can just keep on being homeless.

You do have to wonder whether they check anything any more, never mind whether council housing depts. have staff who don’t mind bending the rules for friends/family/anyone offering a nice brown envelope.

It was some years ago, but I know it was in the news that one London council housing dept., or rather some of its officers, were found to be as dodgy as you like. But the council in question had failed to investigate those officers, because they were either black or brown, so the management was afraid of being accused of racial discrimination.

I agree. I suppose its just very difficult to sort the genuine cases from the piss takers.

Is it though?

The council just needs proof or residence and pay slips.

Or maybe even information from HMRC and bank statements.

Sweden don’t have much experience of this because as you say it’s all new to them, so interesting to see but not necessarily emulate

“Profits made by councils and housing associations from the market rents should go back into providing more social housing”

that’s exactly what already happens

The point is that nobody should be doing this. If you know of any pensioners in Tenerife doing this then report them. It's just wrong no matter what colour skin you've got.