A question about Henry Nowak….

[CurlewKate]

Is there any actual evidence to support the suggestion that this completely awful event had anything to do with with “two tier policing” and was a hideous example of appalling policing and in particular, appalling first responding? It is unforgivable that the police didn’t check Nowak properly for injuries. But there was no weapon at the scene and the police were met with 4 people who had called them and were all telling the same story.They made assumptions which they would probably have made regardless of the ethnicity of the people involved. And in 999 cases out of 1000 the assumptions would have been right. The sort of judgement call the police have to make all the time. So it seems to me that it’s not about policy, it’s about incompetence.

The training is an issue, it’s being highlighted by police now. Due to Henry’s sad death.

The systemic problem is now known.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/cops-wanted-to-paint-stab-victim-henry-nowak-as-aggressor-as-vickrum-digwa-faced-murder-trial/news-story/d204bde91a6a332615255733c94bbb4f%3famp

We don't yet know whether or not that specific training had any bearing on the treatment of Henry Nowak. That's the point. People are making assumptions but the investigation has not yet been concluded.

I believe most videos show up until the police woman says about his eyes not responding.

That’s when they realise Henry had lost consciousness, the male police officer starts giving CPR and then realises he has a chest wound.

The medical experts said there wouldn’t have been much blood and it would have been almost impossible to see any marks in his shirt because it was black and it was dark outside.

The op is wrong in her general assumptions to start with.

I first saw it as a civilian and was shocked they didn’t run to the man lying on the ground and immediately check him for injuries (especially as they’d said he’d fallen off a fence).
I literally cried because although it was only a matter of minutes I was thinking why are they not helping him.

But then I think about the times similar things have happened in prison.
I wouldn’t drop to my knees in a room full of unknown men, I wouldn’t go into a cell on my own etc I would either wait for back up or like what’s happened in the past, get the other men out of the room, call for back up and then tend to the man on the floor whilst back up comes.
So I would delay seeing to him to keep myself and others safe.
I would also be very calm and not rushing around or over emotional, which may come across as uncaring but it’s just about keeping my own head clear and not riling up anyone else.

Multiple police officers have said that many perpetrators will immediately play the victim and say they can’t breathe etc.

I know when my brother got arrested, his ex and her mum had phoned the police on him.

The police officers were nice but they instantly painted him as the perpetrator because the ex was the one to call the police on him.
He was taken away in handcuffs and it was only when they got back to the station that they saw his injuries.

The majority of people who call the police are the victims themselves.

Yes there is an element of the statistics of white men being more aggressive to brown and black men, just like the statistics of men more likely being aggressive to women and this would have been subconsciously in the back of their minds.

But the race issue is a red herring, they arrived at a scene where someone had phoned the police and therefore by default they are the victim until they can piece everything together, just like my brothers ex was by default the victim.

I wasn't commenting on the OP's assumptions, I was commenting on your assumptions.

My primary point is that none of us should be making assumptions at this stage because the facts are not yet known.

Not sure which assumptions you mean.

How are you still unsure? I mean it was just discussed.

Which are what exactly? What do you think my assumptions are

Btw it’s not surprising you’d let the op’s slide of course…

I wonder when you think the "two tier" thing started, out of interest.

Yes - It was absolutely unforgivable that the police didn’t check Nowak properly for injuries. When someone claims to have been stabbed they need to be checked properly - utterly failed in their duty of care. The fact that another person claimed to have been attacked is just a claim - there was no proof whatsoever this happened. It is just one persons word against another.

Nowak was arrested essentially in the dark and left to die on the ground based on a groundless accusation from his murderer with zero evidence to back it up.

I haven’t made any assumptions. I have pointed out what I think might be a more likely explanation than “the police deliberately treated him badly because he is white.” But many people seem to think that anti-white racism is the only possible explanation.

It’s more that it’s pro non-white than actual anti-white.

Its tragic and should not have happened. But I am wondering if this poor young man was also judged on the actions of students in the past? I am remembering the scandal a few years ago when a bunch of male students WhatsApps were discovered and they were expelled. That was also in Southampton and makes me wonder if there is tension between town and gown. I went to Durham and it was definitely a thing there- and rightly so. It's a long time ago, but some of the more privileged students were vile to the locals and it definitely created tension, even with those of us who were respectful.

And you’ve missed what police have said about how training impacts them in the moment.

Why don't you respond to the OP direct then if you think she is making assumptions and should wait for the official report to be done.

Come on, EVERYBODY knows that.

People think that there was a difference between the treatment of Henry Nowak and Digwa. What would you say to the comments made by Henry's father about how they were both treated?

If it transpires that at no point was Digwa handcuffed after his arrest why do you think that was. If it's because the officer was scared of being accused of 'racism' then there is something drastically wrong.

Yes, quite. They honed in pretty fast elsewhere.

I can understand it was a confusing situation because the killer’s brother phoned the police with a convincing story about how HN had attacked VD and then tried to get away, injuring himself in the process. During the call I think you can hear HN in the background trying to tell onlookers about his situation but they are told by the brother to leave him alone and that he’s on the phone to police. Really heartbreaking that HN tried desperately to get others to listen to him and help, but he was outnumbered by people loyal to the killer, and was obviously limited and incapacitated due to injury. He must have felt terrified and alone.

I agree the police went in with a set of assumptions and this is somewhat inevitable. However, it looks like protocol wasn’t followed. The protocol is there precisely because humans are fallible, surely. I think there were three or four officers on the scene. Why didn’t they immediately separate the parties to get statements from each side? Why did they ignore HN’s pleas? I understand they were sceptical and probably thought he was drunk and/or bluffing, but there is a duty to check regardless. Yes, in many cases the person is lying, but how do you know? What is a person supposed to say to make you believe they are genuine? There are no magic words. It seems like the female officer was attempting to follow up on this as she starts checking more closely and asking questions, but the male officer is dismissive. I genuinely don’t understand the rush to handcuff. He wasn’t resisting arrest, wasn’t posing any threat. The officers don’t seem concerned for their safety and have been told there are no weapons on the scene, so why the need to restrain him especially without first checking more thoroughly for injuries?

The whole thing is totally heartbreaking

I’m assuming that’s not why.

I’ve got no idea why, neither have you, we weren’t there and aren’t those police officers.

Which is why there is an investigation into what happened in regards to the police response and the events of that night so that it doesn't happen again.

Well precisely.

But I don’t know how much value people on MN speculating “what if it was this? Or this?” adds to that investigation.