A question about Henry Nowak….

[CurlewKate]

Is there any actual evidence to support the suggestion that this completely awful event had anything to do with with “two tier policing” and was a hideous example of appalling policing and in particular, appalling first responding? It is unforgivable that the police didn’t check Nowak properly for injuries. But there was no weapon at the scene and the police were met with 4 people who had called them and were all telling the same story.They made assumptions which they would probably have made regardless of the ethnicity of the people involved. And in 999 cases out of 1000 the assumptions would have been right. The sort of judgement call the police have to make all the time. So it seems to me that it’s not about policy, it’s about incompetence.

The police handcuffed Henry when he was collapsed on the ground, with a mouthful of blood, already barely responsive because they immediately racially profiled him as a white aggressor. Meanwhile the actual murderer was allowed back into his kitchen to get food and went into the police van uncuffed after he had been arrested because the police were sticking with that conviction about Henry. Days after the murder they were still publicly referring to Henry as the aggressor, to cover their own arses no doubt.

I’ll start with the fiction section. Thanks for your help.

😘

Statistics don't justify this case though, because using "statistics" to judge a situation is a misunderstanding of how statistics should be applied. If that was the case then the police are hugely at fault but we don't know if they are. Eg even if "statistically" a young man slurring his words is more likely to be drunk than unwell the police should absolutely NOT be assuming the man is drunk. It's also why AI and algorithms in policing are so troubling.

Also, using statistics to make judgements in policing can change others behaviour and make statistics irrelevant. If (as Kemi Badenpch suggested) police forces carry out more knife checks on men than women (and on black men than white men), men in actual criminal gangs will switch to asking their girlfriends to carry their weapons for them.

But we don't know what the police were thinking yet.

But I don’t think there is any footage of the actual stabbing is there?

Digwa said on the phone that Henry was drunk and bumped into him and they started arguing.
Henry started recording him saying you think you’re a bad man etc and then Digwa snatched his phone.
He said Henry then pushed or punched him and his turban fell off and the Henry grabbed him and then they were fighting.

It seems he then stabbed him and then Henry tried getting over the bins to get away, perhaps the brother was blocking the entrance or something.

Some reports say that the brother only found out about the stabbing after he rang the police and the conversation was recorded in the police van. The phone call is very convincing if the bother knew the truth about what had happened.

And I also agree with you about the “I don’t think you have mate” being an assumption that it was just a small injury from trying to jump the fence because the police were on their way.

I think people hear that and think the police were very uncaring, which I understand but even in a massive car crash the first responders will often play down the injuries to the casualties.

If he had said it and hadn’t bothered checking for injuries then I would be disgusted but he said it as he was checking.

This is where people are getting confused.

This wasn’t outside a nightclub and the police assumed the white person must be the aggressive one.

Henry was on their property and they called the police - immediately they are by default the victims and he is the perpetrator because they rang the police on him.

If a stranger attacked you and was outside your home tonight, you would ring the police.

When the police got there, they would assume the man was the perpetrator and you were the victim - not because you are a women and he is a man - but because YOU rang the police and told them to come and help you.

By default the man that you have claimed to attack you is seen as the perpetrator until they gather more evidence, especially when he’s on your property.

If you rang the police because you were getting attacked by a random man, would you expect them to treat you like a criminal and them treat him like a victim?
No, you would expect them to treat you as the victim as that’s what they do.

The person who rings the police for help is by default seen as the victim.

But I don’t think there is any footage of the actual stabbing is there?

No, not that I know of, but I was surprised that there is some footage of the chase just afterwards (though possibly very poor quality, don't know more than that it was accessed from the phone). There was a tiny amount time used by the attacker to give the weapon to someone else to hide, and they were worried that there may have been street cameras that could have captured a record of the real actions, to disprove stories they were concocting.

No of course not, but the family used these statistics to try and get out of the situation.

It obviously didn’t work but they still tried.

But the police didn’t assume Henry was racist because he was white, they were told this because that’s what the family lied about.

He wasn’t on their property he had run away, scaled a fence and was next to a neighbours front door. A white man. Who in the video opens his door and is quite clearly standing there.

When the brother was talking to the police call handler did he ever say that it was a white man who'd racially insulted his brother and racially assaulted him? Yes, I have listened to it but I can't remember.

I think he did use the word white and he definitely said we’re Sikhs and it was a racist attack or something along those lines.

Was it not the next door neighbours, which is why they said he fell and injured himself because they said they were phoning the police?

Yes, I agree with this. The police were too quick to believe the killer's account of what happened. They are trained to believe ALL accusations of racism and their race action plans tell them that their top priority is to tackle racism.

Therefore they went into the situation with this mindset, ie that Digwa was the victim and that Henry was a racist criminal. They treated Henry accordingly and I think their rough treatment of him may well have contributed to his death.

Exactly, I have a female family member who was attacked and robbed by 4 black youths. If it had been a black woman attacked and robbed by 4 white youths, it may well have been perceived as a racist incident by the police.

When the brother made the call to the police he told the call handler that he and his brother had been racially attacked.

So that was the information the police went in with, that caused them to drag Henry along the ground, handcuff him etc, because they believed 100% what they'd been told instead of assessing the situation impartially.

Yes, attacked though means assault. And when they arrived the killer was bouncing around showing them his hurty eye etc. so it wasn't "he said a racist word to me" it was "he physically attacked me, and also that had a racist motivation". The people only mentioning the "for racism" part are downplaying what the police thought they were dealing with when they arrived on the scene so as to zero in on the racism part only.
None of which justifies the polices failure to better assess the situation when they actually arrived.

Sorry I dont know the distance in relation to digwas house.

I was thinking about what occurred with the neighbour. They must be very troubled too thinking about if they could or should have done something differently

If the reason they were attacked because they were black/white then yes that would have been seen as a racist attack.

But just attacking someone because you’re a criminal doesn’t make you a racist.

Henry seemingly did have a scrap with this man but he wasn’t racist at all.
Digwa used that as an excuse as to why he stabbed him in ‘self defence’.

The judge dismissed the racism claims straight away, which is the opposite of what you’re saying.

So your theory of statistics being skewed because of regular attacks being seen as racist attacks is completely inaccurate.

There has to be actual evidence of racism for it to be seen as a racist attack, they don’t just go by he said, she said.

I don't think they could have saved his life as he was bleeding very heavily internally. I also think them coming out/being on the scene is what ultimately led to the police being called (even if they were called for misleading reasons) and ultimately made it easier to arrest and convict the killer. I'm assuming otherwise the killer and his family could have walked away and left him and it would have been harder to track down the killer. I don't think the homeowner did anything wrong and hopefully they will know they indirectly helped the victim get justice.

But it must be very traumatising.

There has to be actual evidence of racism for it to be seen as a racist attack, they don’t just go by he said, she said.

The police seemed to believe what the murderer and his brother said readily enough.

Initially they certainly believed their version of who was the aggressor. Ultimately they did not believe them as once it was ascertained Novak had been stabbed there was a murder investigation. The killer had no evidence to support his claim and he wasn't believed in the long run. So yes and no.

Yes, when the brother made the call to the police he told the call handler that he and his brother had been 'attacked by someone racially, by some white person' and that they were 'restraining him now'.

All lies. So the police went in with a biased view of what had happened and that clouded their judgement with dire consequences.

Yes, the difference in treatment is what this is all about. I think most people in this country have a strong sense of fair play, and that's why people are so upset about it.

Yeah of course.

If I rang the police and said there’s a man attacking or raping me and to please help me - then I would seriously hope the police initially believed me.

Would you not hope to be believed if you said you were being attacked by a strange man or even your husband?

But once the evidence was clear this wasn’t seen as a racist attack because it wasn’t one.

There was no evidence of any racism and therefore it would not be put down as one and wouldn’t skew any statistical data as some people are suggesting.

@chocoluv really ? Are you sure about that because I've read and saw on news a black guy from a charity saying if we care about young black males we must increase knife searches of young black men because a young black mans biggest threat is another one ??