Do you believe the Michael Jackson allegations part 2

[AutumnLover1990]

New thread 😀

I'm not here to discuss that. Just suggesting try and be a little kinder in how you converse with those with a different opinion.

Clearly you are here to discuss that. I’m not the one poking fun at victims of CSA. That is unkind.

Does it not?

A squillion paged 2 threads on here might say otherwise. Believe hes innocent if thats your wont, but please don't try and convince those of us who have a titter of wit thats the case.

Nothing complex at all in believing a child who was gaslighted into thinking he was loved by the prince of Pop, used sexually and then replaced by a similar model when he reached puberty.

I believe them as I believed Saville Epstein and Andy formerly known as Princes victims

Yes it is

And having read everything on these pages today the people posting vomit emojis, money emojis, and talking about "a load of crap" in regard to child sex abuse victims really shouldn't be lecturing others on their posting style.

Yes, quite. Well said. One of the MJ supporters on this thread has admitted that victim testimonies are the strongest evidence of CSA. Except when the person they are accusing is MJ, it seems(!)

Even apart from the CSA victims themselves are adults who worked in his house who were brave enough to speak out (because MJ had heavies who would threaten potential witnesses) and say they had seen MJ put his tongue in a child’s mouth and touch boys in the crotch area.

Noone here is poking fun at victims. And if they are then they shouldn't.

Again the fact he had an abusive background makes this abuse even more likely. And I disagree people should not be able to just choose to believe the person they idolise simply because they like his music. He committed awful crimes against others. I fear for the safety of children around anyone who believes Jackson was innocent. Its just not ok to stick your head in the sand. Unless we wake up to this stuff it will keep repeating itself. I feel strongly that if a trial were held now it would be found innocent and lets be very clear that doesnt make him not guilty. OJ killed his wife the trial was a shambles and this is no different.

You haven't but its definitely there Ive read it all this morning.

Ironically what it does is prove that fandom and love for a hero turns people blind.

It certainly doesnt help an innocent argument

Im down a bit of a rabbit hole today with this, ive four grown up kids and four granddaughters and was trying to put myself into the parents place here.

First i cant imagine letting my son (never daughters his choice were all clones in physical appearance, strange that eh)

But. Whether they were stupid niave or greedy in letting them be in a bedroom with Michael, it wasn't the children's fault.

So when my son tells me this happened whats the right thing to do? Do I put him through a trial with the world and his mad as a box of frogs fans watching every move? Do I have my child shouted at and disbelieved by the defence? To have him having to relive the most embarrassing sexual scenarios to be ripped to pieces? Thst might be more traumatic than the event itself?

Then you have the Jacksons offering you squillions to keep quiet about it, hmmm I personally would have to weigh up the greater of two evils but why offer squillions if youve done nothing wrong?

Im in NI and at the minute we have a major politician in a trial accused by two woman of abuse as children. They are just yesterday being asked why they said nothing and their answer is that it was their uncle and they didn't want to get him into trouble and ruin his reputation, years later they want justice and good for them.

So those victims who are bringing a case now should not just be assumed to be after money.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness I know thats a ramble🤣

I see.

If anyone is interested there is a full transcript of the 2005 court case available on YouTube. All the evidence is there in it's entirety including info Netflix didn't include. It's very interesting

‘If people such as **believe he's innocent then let them. It really doesn't make any difference in the end.’ Of course it makes a difference. A huge difference especially to the victims who are desperate to be believed. What a ridiculous thing to say.

In the film thread when it came out on another forum it was so telling when a poster cane in to say they found it in poor taste due to his history with children.

It was like a religious cult with Michael at its head, with ardent fans riling each other up saying we have to get the truth out there that he had a pure heart and was like a child himself

What the actual fuck

It would be very unwise to trust any YouTube or social media posts that claim they contain true trial transcripts. The internet is brimming over with made up rubbish and AI generated misinformation.

She can believe what she want, but obviously people are not going to 'let' her post money emojis and misinformation everywhere without responding. Or 'let' her comment about 5 times about how the Arvizo clip was cut off and suggest the MJ estate should sue Netflix for that, without commenting and asking questions.

Also once again you are very critical of those who believe MJ is guilty and trying to tell people what to post, but not towards the side who believe he's innocent, who quite clearly are posting some inflammatory and goady stuff and it is quite clear they are setting the tone for the responses they will receive.

You would not be saying the same if this was a thread about Epstein and people were saying the evidence against him is fuck all and people were posting all the 💸💸💰💰🫰🫰🤑💵💵💵 emojis.

Different rules on the internet and in social psychology don't apply just because it's MJ you know. So again, if you and others want the comments to go differently then they and you can up the standard of their own posts, you cannot expect one side to be 'let' post whatever they like and then tell the other side how they should be responding to it.

Indeed, the be kind post was a tad ironic considering the other inflammatory posts not commented upon.

Yep and this has already been pointed out, but yet they persist and try to feign superiority and maturity, posting all those inflammatory emojis etc and trying to dictate how people respond to them. 🙄

Well when you’ve nothing of substance to say, posting emojis is easier.

Yep.
If it doesn't make any difference in the end then why do the MJ fans feel the need to defend him so aggressively, why do they care whether other people think he's guilty?
Why the need to lie and say that he never slept in bed with kids and that he was saving kids from Epstein island? 🙉

I don't see that poster saying if people believe the accusers are innocent of wrongdoing then 'let them' instead of posting comments constantly saying they're money grabbers and vomit inducing.

Personally I don't care whether people believe he is innocent or not, but if you're engaging on a forum and sharing those beliefs and spreading misinformation also then obviously you cannot expect that that will not be challenged.

It took me hours this morning but I did smile at the posts about Macauley Culkin etc saying they hadnt been or seen any abuse as if it was some kind of proof of something 😁

I mean years ago I interacted with Jimmy Saville in a work capacity and he was perfectly nice and polite so.......

Ooops

My friends grandmother knew Jimmy Saville’s mother. They were friends. She was outraged when she first heard mention of Saville’s hideous crimes and of course defended him until it was impossible to defend him any more. It’s very common for close family and friends to know nothing about what’s really going on. Abusers learn to be clever.

Exactly right. The only people who will know are the targets of the abuse.

. You're coming across like a mob with pitchforks rather than people objectively assessing the facts. None of us knows whether he's guilty or innocent at this stage. The only reasonable approach is to follow the evidence presented in court and let that process play out. Speculation, assumptions, and personal opinions aren't a substitute for evidence.

I agree, it’s really immature.

Going to watch the Square One documentary tomorrow, hopefully it’s better than the Netflix doc.

No we're not, we're responding to inflammatory comments from people who are making vile comments about the victims of CSA from people who apparently only believe 90% that he's innocent, or like yourself who apparently isn't taking a position on innocence but conveniently only posts pro-innocence stuff and only criticises the guilty side for their posts.

Who appointed you the queen of what is reasonable or not?
I for one don't need to wait to see what the lawsuit says because I already believe he's guilty of abusing Jordan and Gavin.

And this isn't the first time you've made a big deal about 'evidence' and the importance of it, yet your contributions have included a video of his lawyer saying he didn't do it, a post of him with pictures of Dave Dave saying 'this says it all, an extraordinary kind man' with love hearts. So you're allowed to accept whatever you want as evidence, but not people on the other side to you...sounds about right, given the complete and utter hypocrisy of all of your posts.