Do you believe the Michael Jackson allegations part 2

[AutumnLover1990]

New thread 😀

Well that's exactly how it's coming across, and if you applied critical thinking to consider how you are engaging with the thread you would be aware of this and wouldn't be instead criticizing me for my reaction to what you are posting.

You have posted other stuff and when people provide rebuttals you are not engaging with the rebuttals in any meaningful way and instead are posting the next pro-innocence thing.

• typo - on my partner. Not partner

And as discussed previously if the books cover enthralled him so much thinking it was so beautiful that he decided to inscribe it then he would obviously have looked through the contents of the rest of the book and seen the rest of the pictures and anyone who was not a pedophile would have been horrified by the contents of the book and anyone who cared so much about the innocence of children would be appalled at these exploitative pictures of boys naked with their legs spread and genitals on display, or bent over naked leaning into a tent or something, or 2 naked boys washing each other in the shower.

I don't think anyone who cared about children being exploited or abused and who wanted them to be happy and free could genuinely look at that book and think it was beautiful and that that is what they would want for their children because your mind would automatically see the very obvious exploitation that had to have occurred for those pictures to be taken.

The belief in innocence means MJ is being put in a category by himself, this sweet angel man who is just obsessed with innocence and children and it's all so loving and wonderful, and ignore that there is a category of men who behave the same and say the same things who are anything but innocent but just tell themselves they are.

It also begs the question about how it could be possible for someone to get it so horribly wrong, to be obsessed with innocence and preserving it etc but yet leave a trail of destruction, where you shower kids with love and attention creating a strong bond, in the exact same way that child groomers/abusers do, where several accuse you of abuse, where you get in the way of their relationships with their parents and siblings and instead become the most important person to them, where little 11 year olds have to go on TV to say you never touched them, where they have to make dispositions for court, where kids get called gay or are always asked if MJ touched you, where you happen to accidentally end up falling in love with a pedophile book etc etc.

And that's a compelling argument. I hope he genuinely felt for those kids placed on that public platform. Inappropriate and thoughtless sure. A criminal, we'll never know. Definitely not with how muddy the waters are.

Hmmm. I think we do know. 🧐

Definitely muddy waters, stinking with the smell of money and bullshit, as well as mud. You can see that in much of the testimonies in the trial. Thanks for posting that link earlier today @Hubhubba26

The only mention I've heard about his reaction was in the book by J Randy Taraborelli where Michael apparently said that that's not good and it made him look even worse. He didn't seem to express any concern for the kids.

And look at the Martin Bashir interview, he put Gavin in the position where he could be interviewed.

Many of us can confidently say that we do know, if I was to say 'we'll never know' about MJ then I don't know how I could confidently accept that others are pedophiles when there is generally even less evidence, just the testimonies and no other evidence of unusual and inappropriate relationships.

You certainly can.
Imagine behaving exactly like a pedophile and having people defend you.

It absolutely does smell of money and bullshit.

Yep. Totally agree

Like who for example? Macaulay Culkin? Brett Barnes?

No, I don't judge the people who may have been abused themselves when they were kids and who are dealing with the after effects of that and are possibly in a deep state of confusion and internal conflict.

Bretts testimony was particularly concerning, he seemed to believe that his name was being dragged through the mud when people suggested that MJ had inappropriately touched him and that it would be shameful to have been abused, there was echoes of this in Jordan Chandlers interview in which he partly blamed himself for only stopping MJ from doing certain things, and also is in line with how Wade and James were made to feel, like if people found out about it that they would both be to blame and judged for what happened.

And of course if you do come forward and say MJ abused you, everyone around you calls you a liar.

Macaulay Culkin is Prince’s godfather - he has a relationship with MJ’s children. So he would never betray them which is understandable.

Have to link to a reddit thread because I don't know how to copy the video off it but it's a short video of Lisa Marie saying that not a lot of people know who he really is and how he has some idea of how he should represent himself in the public which is the meek victim-y quiet thing that he does which is nothing like how he really is.

Talk about muddying the waters, his public persona is what has muddied the waters, fans think he's exactly like that, meek, quiet and a victim.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeavingNeverlandHBO/comments/1tssj8y/lisa_marie_confessing_that_michaels_fragile/

And just to add context, she's also been interviewed saying a lot of nice things about him. Including that he is very caring.
Let's also not forget Dr Murrays recording of him when he was sedated, didn't know he was being recorded and sounding exactly like the MJ people think they know and just as caring as LMP described.

Indeed, but of course, what she’s said about him has been cherry picked by some on here to help paint the picture of Jackson as a monster.

Of course. Anything to fit their narrative 🙄

Yes I know she has.
And for more context she has also said that he is a master at manipulating the media, and was very good at puppeteering, she said she always thought the manipulation meant he didn't love her but, but that after he died she realised it was a survival tactic for him. She said she understood him better then but maybe it was just less painful for her to believe that he did love her after all.

And of course Priscilla thought he was highly manipulative.

But my main point was that the Michael that people defend is the one that they see in the videos, the meek, quiet victim, and that's not who he is.
If he showed his true self when he was being recorded I don't think as many would be duped.

As for the recording MJ repeated that script all the time, he had a messiah complex, it wouldn't surprise me that he'd also repeat it when he was under the influence.

Oh yes we'll use anything, anything at all.🙄

Sleeping in bed with little boys, we'll use that.
Multiple accusers, we'll use that.
Typical grooming behaviour, we'll use that.
Lisa Marie saying that the meek, quiet victim image that he always put on was not the real him.

Things like that.

We really are reaching aren't we?🙄 😂

Imagine actually pointing at the telltale signs and concerning behaviour from MJ that is literally indicative of pedophiles and using that to try to say he was one.

What mental gymnastics we must be going through in order to reach these conclusions 😆

Yet - as has been said here a hundred times at least - he was acquitted on all charges of child sexual abuse, after due process had taken place.

And as I'm sure you will know seeing as you've seen it said 100 times, many of us do not accept the verdict of the court in relation to the one boy he went on trial accused of abusing, in deciding whether he was a pedophile or not and nor do we have to accept the verdict of the court.

All the court verdict means is that he escaped a criminal conviction and jail time. It does nothing to change my mind.

Many guilty people have walked free after being found not guilty, it doesn't mean that they didn't do what were accused of.

All discussed in court via the prosecutions argument and all completely fell apart under interrogation by the defence. Hence the not guilty verdict. Not even close to a guilty verdict

What becomes clear the more you research is just how low people will stoop for money. Very sad.

I think it’s easy for people online to present selective summaries without acknowledging how contested the evidence actually was in court.

Not nearly as sad as what people will excuse and how they talk about the victims of CSA just because they like MJ.

I'm just watching matt fiddes videos. Mjs friend. He says a lot of interesting things about Martin Bashir. Apparently Martin Bashir told me to show his baby to the crowd in Germany. Martin Bashir also told gain arvizo to put his head on mjs shoulder