Do you believe the Michael Jackson allegations part 2

[AutumnLover1990]

New thread 😀

That’s only my opinion based upon my life experience which has taught me that people like to be surrounded by others who have similar ethics to them.

I watched Leaving Neverland.

Like I've said before, let's see what new evidence they'll bring to the trials.

Some people were asking about proof of MJ having locked books of nude children away. You can find it at 1:18 of this video.

Actually a lot of correct sources have been posted - you just decided to ignore them.

Out of interest, can you explain from your POV about what would be believable evidence of CSA? What evidence would you expect to see in a case where you believed the victim? Because the thing about CSA is that the only people present when abuse takes place the abuser and the child.

Also I posted the link to the psychologist's interview with Jordan Chandler. It comes across as very authentic. I mean you wonder what bits the fans don't believe of this?

Because the hours and hours of phone calls and sharing his bed night after night are hugely red flag behaviours already, why would you not believe the rest that goes with it?

I believe Jordy Chandler but also I cannot think this is the story a boy would make up, if they thought of making up a story of abuse. It would never have occured to me at his age (or to many adults without specialist knowledge I imagine) that an adult abuser would stop when directly told no and then try to guilt trip the child into doing more stuff by making them feel sorry for him.

To some extent I think Jackson deluded himself into thinking he was having a consensual relationship with these boys. The manipulation and the gaslighting must have caused so much harm to them.

Some fans don't want to believe it, thats why. According to them, everyone is lying. The children were lying, the police were lying, people that were in MJ’s house and had more chance than most to see inappropriate behaviour were lying. Everything is lies according to them. Which is ironic because MJ was objectively a pathological liar.

Some pedophiles believe that they should be allowed to have relationships with children - there is a sickening movement for such a thing.

The thing that is so disgusting about the MJ apologists is that they think victim hood is something that can only be ‘granted’ to perfect people. Which is a good way to shut anything down because no such person exists.

That's what I was thinking also about Jordans version of events. Of course people say that his dad coached him, but even then I don't think that that's the story that someone would tell if they were making up an abuse story in the 90s because there wouldn't have been as much understanding of abuse and grooming, and Jordan also says that he allowed him to do something like that, most boys that age would have had a fear of being called gay etc so it would be very difficult to convince any of them to say that they let him do x or y, and why would they need to go with that version of events when if it was fake they could have just said he forced it all on him.

Some pedophiles believe that they should be allowed to have relationships with children - there is a sickening movement for such a thing.

Yes and they talk exactly like Michael.
It obviously makes perfect sense given his behaviour and pattern that his is the category he fits into.

But instead people want to put him in a category by himself, someone who is just obsessed with children in a loving way because he 'didn't have a childhood'.

No one is that obsessed with being around or looking at children except for pedophiles.

Jordan Chandler lived an isolated existence since he came out and said he was abused by MJ. He was unable to go to school without being bullied and other boys calling him ‘gay’. He was unable to graduate high school.

His family received daily death threats and a driver attempted to run Jordan over with his truck whilst Jordan was out rollerblading.

He might have all that money but I suspect it’s not easy being him to this day.

@kkloo you’re right - they do talk exactly like MJ ‘children are perfect and innocent - why shouldn’t an adult want to have a relationship with them?’ 🤮

Well said. I posted a few days ago about Virginia Guiffre and how this has all affected her. But then had it been MJ that she accused no doubt shed have been painted as a money grabbing gold digger or worse.

All this evidence... evidence .....new evidence ......We'll see if theres new evidence squawking completely misses the point between the legal and moral argument.

It also ignores the fact that rapes and sexual abuse is often not reported for the very reason that its one word against another, and those that do carry it through are often unsuccessful.

And that's adult cases, personally I find it pretty disgusting that child victims are being disbelieved at the feet of adoration for a pop singer. Listening to their accounts its beyond me, but I guess even Ian Watkins still has the odd fan whose liking for him professionally overrides any heinous crimes he committed.

Never underestimate the fanaticism of the ardent fan eh?

You are very naive if you don’t think staff get heavily screened and vetted for household roles, bodyguards etc. There’s a rigorous vetting procedure and people are chosen for what they need them to be, loyal and discreet would be paramount . You are ridiculous to believe that MJ was not looking for specific core values and traits when choosing staff.

Yep, they also say that people who think something wrong with it are 'ignorant'.
One of MJs favourite words to describe people when they call out his extremely concerning behaviour that only pedophiles would ever dream of doing.

Society is the problem, not them. Everyone else is the problem, not them, because they're only doing it out of love 😷

Just listen

Bodyguards are not going to see abuse, obviously. MJ was a very intelligent man who knew exactly what he could get away with and when.

Who are you to call multiple victims of CSA liars just because this man was your idol?

@Marriedatsecondsight All this evidence... evidence .....new evidence ......We'll see if theres new evidence squawking completely misses the point between the legal and moral argument.

That's exactly how they go on 😅

He was only his bodyguard from late 2006-2009.

He's wrote a book about his time with Michael Jackson so how do you know he's not all about the money?

He also tried to make out that Wade and James barely even knew MJ and were just groupies.

Did you look up anything about this guy before you posted the video or did you just see someone defending him and then just see that as 'evidence' of something?

But some of Jackson’s other staff testified they saw him abusing children. So how does that fit into your theory?

I was referring to HIM recruiting all staff. It’s very unlikely that it happened.

They only saw the abuse because MJ didn’t realise they could see what was happening. One staff member saw it through a window.

The tone of your posts is quite insulting to victims of abuse @fundamentallyauthentic. Do you have children yourself? I think if you did, that might alter your stance on this.

Also, you didn’t answer my question earlier. What would you consider evidence of CSA? Or would you dismiss every child who claimed they were a victim of it?

So report them and see what happens.

I didn’t answer because I don’t always have the time to read threads and consider my answers but I think with regard to historical cases of sex abuse cases the strongest piece of evidences typically come from testimonies.

One of his bodyguards testified he saw Jackson abusing a child. I’m sure you know this. Or is he lying?

Right, so we agree don’t we that the strongest evidence is testimonies? And that’s been my entire point.

Why would I report your posts? Im pointing out that what you’re doing is giving MJ a pass because he was a talented musician who has tricked some fans into believing that he’s the only man in the history of mankind to sleep with children day after day, go on dates with them and there’s nothing nefarious about it.