Do you believe the Michael Jackson allegations part 2

[AutumnLover1990]

New thread 😀

Creepy, disgusting abuser. I cannot listen to his music anymore.

The reason I feel it’s important to have this discussion is that we are supposed to be living in a time where victims are now believed and children are protected.

The days of victim blaming are supposed to be over and yet we still have delusional MJ fans of his calling victims liars and doing mental gymnastics to twist the truth. They think special rules apply to this man. They do not.

See this is what I find hard to believe. An alleged photo of Johnathan Spence,a boy known to Michael? Nothing was done about that,yet a photography book was removed? No wonder us fans are very sceptical 😦

What do you mean removed?

We've discussed a couple of reasons on this thread about why they might not have done anything about the photo but we keep going over the same things over and over. I believe we also discussed it on the last thread how sometimes damning evidence isn't used for various reasons.

I would still really like to see the court document of police report 205 (list if contents found in the search). Not the contents according to a journalist or a random on Reddit. The link to the actual document. As @MyTrivia is unable to do this, perhaps @kkloo can?

And yes, I have looked for it myself.

google neverland raid pdf

I personally think that for the most wilfully deluded fans, there is no evidence short of an actual video of MJ doing something wrong that would convince them of his guilt. Actually, no they’d say it was someone else.

I find this thread really interesting. A number of my primary school teacher friends (so people who are very hot in safeguarding), remain MJ fans, and I just find it incomprehensible. I have never argued the point with them (I don't want to fall out over a dead child abuser), but have been... well, bemused.

I guess I'm still just as befuddled, but I can see their thinking played out here.

I guess this is a classic example of cognitive dissonance.

No @Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies you’re wrong. Have a look at this:

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-cognitive-dissonance-2795012

I don't know...avoiding information that challenges your beliefs?

That sounds somewhat relevant here.

Serious case of it!

It's been very apparent on all of these threads. Supporters generally completely ignore all uncomfortable questions about his behaviour and things that were found etc.

Those beliefs would have to be contradictory, according to the definition of cognitive dissonance.

They are contradictory.

No one thinks it would be ok for any other grown man to do this or to have those books etc. no matter what you may try to claim.

If a child told me they were sleeping in the same bed as lovely Mr Jackson (no relation), as a teacher I would be legally bound to report it as a serious safeguarding concern. Yet MJ is simply a kind childlike man who loves (!?) children).

There has to be an element of cognitive dissonance here.

Edit - for a typo

I think the only thing we can be sure off is, he's dead and therefor not going to deny or defend any accusations.

My personal view, he was a seriously damaged individual, afraid of growing up snd trying to hold onto childhood.

No, you’re wrong. I can’t be bothered to give a mini psychology 101 lesson here with an explanation of how that would work on a thread like this, but that link I posted encapsulates the theory.

Someone else came out with the cognitive dissonance crap on the previous thread (without trying to explain it). Sounds impressive to some, but to the more switched on person, well, it’s not a good look, in this context.

The children's faces photoshopped onto adult bodies. I'm surprised this isn't discussed more often in the mainstream. It's very damning, especially if true.

Nope I'm not wrong.

We have adults here who would normally be completely appalled by this stuff, who act like it's fine just because it's MJ.

Unless you're saying you wouldn't be appalled if other men slept in bed with boys and replaced them with new boys once they got to a certain age and also had books full of nude images of boys around the same age.

In which case then there's no cognitive dissonance but your views are concerning and absolutely not the norm.

Well said. I’ve been looking into the stuff about the animals MJ had, which was a lot. Apparently, he used to beat Bubbles over the head if he was ‘naughty’ and he asked the chimp expert he employed if she thought this was ok had she said ‘no, of course not’. Bubbles has gone to sanctuary and MJ didn’t pay a penny towards his ongoing upkeep although the Jackson family do now pay substantial money for his upkeep as well as other chimps at the sanctuary.

He had elephants that had to be euthanised because they got arthritis and were living in an area unsuitable for them.

He would have a pattern of buying two baby tigers which he would have pictures taken of him hugging them and when they were grown, he got rid of them and bought two new babies. That sounds familiar doesn’t it?!

Tippi Hedren had some of his tigers and in one interview, she said that they seemed to be taken care of when they were with MJ but in her book she says she was disappointed in his lack of care for them 🤷🏻‍♀️

@MyTrivia that is absolutely appalling and so sad, i have read before that he physically abused Bubbles, its good that he and other chimps are being supported. I hate amateur zoos, it always seems to be always unhinged people that run them.

Exactly right, it goes together with narcissism when people take on ‘projects’ which are impossible for them to do without harming themselves and / or others. People like this have magical thinking. Where a normal person would think ‘this won’t be fair on them or me’ the narcissist decides it will all be fine because they want it to be.

Myka Stauffer is another one who fits this personality type. She and her husband (in the US) adopted an autistic child from China with very significant needs. Doctors in America warned her that he was complex and needed a lot of care and they thought it was a bad idea because she already had 4 kids of her own but she didn’t listen, went ahead with the adoption, used the child to get likes and views and money on her YouTube channel and then sent the poor child into foster care when she discovered she couldn’t cope with him!

These people are a menace to society - going around just using and hurting others on a whim.

I think MJ took on somewhat god-like proportions. He was undoubtedly incredibly talented and much has been written about him. People ( fans) can feel a wierd attachment to him, because they have grown up with him or know his music and love it so much they feel they actually know him personally. But they don’t of course. Extraordinary talent or charisma can spill over into judgments about morality. “He made beautiful music” can quietly become “he must be a good person.” And the cognitive dissonance is definitely real in the sense that they feel they love this person so much that it’s impossible he can have done any wrong. His behaviour is excused and twisted to sound ‘normal’ ( well, normal for him) - it’s okay he liked to only hang around young boys and slept with them because he had a terrible childhood and he was lonely. No one else would think that was okay and if a celebrity today was found to be doing this they would be persecuted in the press and rightly investigated and charged. People also expect monsters to look like monsters and if he is seen to outwardly be doing good and helping people it’s hard to believe this was just all a ruse to hide in plain sight.

Personally, "He must have been a good person" comes from first hand anecdotes and videos and filmed interactions. and I think that's what steers fans towards a particular judgement on his moral compass and personality rather than his songs.

I don’t think anyone with a degree of intelligence can think he was whiter than white (nobody is, of course). You can love his music, his artistry but not love him the person. I would also argue you can’t love anyone you don’t or didn’t know.

Not taking a position on his innocence. Just letting you know. To take a stance based on just songs would be pretty daft.