Would you say non-white people born & raised in England are English?

[rack909]

Just thought I should hear people’s perspective on this.

Some say it’s an ethnicity, some say it’s a nationality & others say it’s both of them.

I personally think it’s both a Nationality & ethnic group.

If someone says they are from England, they are denoting their nationality as English even if they don’t say it outright. It’s the same thing.

Does this just apply to people of non-white ancestry in your world? What about descendants of white immigrants who were born and raised here, do you allow them to say they're English/British?

Same here. My DM is English, but my F was Czech, so I’m half Czech ethnically. But it would be ridiculous to say it’s my nationality, as I never lived there (only visited there twice) and don’t speak the language.

So I’m obviously English, though I tend to call myself British.

Though curiously, my DB wasn’t born in this country and, despite living in this country almost all his life, only applied for British citizenship around 10 years ago.

Just fyi, English is ethnic group like Scottish and Welsh are.

"A form that asks for your ethnicity never offer# “English” as a possible answer because it’s not an ethnicity, it’s just geography. The equivalent ethnicity tick-box on a medical form woukd be White-British."

These forms aren't gospel though. You could equally argue that white is skin colour and not an ethnicity and what you need to tick on a medical form is not what necessarily defines your identity.

Your question is about what we can conclude based on skin colour. It's a meaningless question and doesn't serve any purpose other than splitting people into various contrived camps of bigotry, but you knew that, didn't you?

The fact that you have decided to make a thread about skin colour means you're either really really thick, or you are at a loose end with the fact of a fresh weekend and feel the (lonely) need to seek attention with something inflammatory.
Sorry for the void in your life and I hope brighter more fulfilled times are ahead. Genuinely.

Yes

Why wouldn’t they be?

I’m a white immigrant to the UK (England) and as much as I have British citizenship (dual with my home country) I will never really be English or British. And that suits me fine.

Who are these people you’re talking about? I assume you ah r examples since it’s been shown “time and time again”?

Yes

Yes, I describe myself as British-English.

Of course they are (!)

Yes. You are ‘first generation Indian’ and an Indian citizen. You will have dual nationality with Scotland/ Great Britain and should be able to live and travel freely between both countries. Unless your parents gave up your Indian citizenship when you left.

You have Scottish heritage, and probably others too.
You mostly like identify more closely with Scottish culture given you spent most of your life there. The opposite could be true had you not left India and were immersed in their culture instead.

I asked that too. Still waiting...

However, I don’t have to even try to explain all this to people, like the OP would have to, because I’m white. That’s a big difference.

Edited to explain: this was meant to be following on from my previous post!

Most people would say British same for the white 2nd gen’s too

Yes! They are.

If they were British at birth then they remain British irrespective of where they were raised. A friend of mine who is the white British son of British parents was raised in India because that is where his father was working when he was a child. That doesn't make him Indian.

It’s not so clear cut.

We are British. We live overseas. My Ds was born overseas in the country we now live in.

He’s never lived in uk, and speaks local language and customs and has grown up here.
But for all intents and purposes he’s British as he has a British passport as both his parents are British and dual citizenship isn’t given here.

If he has a child though, they cannot inherit British citizenship as he wasn’t born there, and they will only get local if second parent was born here ( so no idea if both parents are born in this country but to parents with foreign nationality)

For now, he says he’s ‘English’. But he’s a child and doesn’t actually know what that is. Culturally he’s not though.

They might describe themselves as British-Indian (for example) to reflect their heritage - their family culture will differ from that of a white British person so the British label on its own won’t do them justice, however they’re not Indian as they weren’t raised in India.

"Yes. You are ‘first generation Indian’ and an Indian citizen. "

How do you know she has Indian citizenship?
If she was born to foreign parents and left as a very small child, I wonder how Indian she is actually, but it's a bit strange that the poster is asking other people and not telling us how she identifies herself.

Yes. People who think otherwise are cunts and racists. Never experienced this as a talking point from anyone else. Ever.

You must have lived a very sheltered life indeed.

I have Irish parents and like you, I was born and raised in England. I also spent every summer in Ireland up to the age of 16. My son has had his DNA analysed and it is 50% Irish/English which confirms mine is 100% Irish.

Yet I don’t consider myself Irish and never have. I’m British or English. I actually get extremely cross if my kids wind me up by calling me Irish. I would never apply for an Irish passport even though I could get one.

So in answer to the OP, of course these people are British.

Yes?

I have cousins born and raised elsewhere (ie France) and I’d say they’re French. Their ancestry may not be, but they are.

That wasn't the OP's question though, was it?