Would you say non-white people born & raised in England are English?

[rack909]

Just thought I should hear people’s perspective on this.

Some say it’s an ethnicity, some say it’s a nationality & others say it’s both of them.

I personally think it’s both a Nationality & ethnic group.

If someone says they are from England, they are denoting their nationality as English even if they don’t say it outright. It’s the same thing.

Obviously

Skin colour does not determine your race

"What about non white people born in Wales or Scotland- are they also more likely to identify as British rather than Welsh or Scottish? "

No, they're not. I made that point in my first post.

Yes they are English or British as most English say.

Also, most people these days saying they are 'British' is probably more accurate anyway, as most people in any areas of the British isles will genetically be a mix of Celts, Saxons etc..i think there was some stat that there were more people of Irish descent in England than there were in Ireland (but that's probably due to numbers rather than proportion if that makes sense).

Ridiculous. I'd feel such a fool and totally narcissistic saying "I am first generation Indian" 😆

What is happening today?

The Tommy Robinson followers are having a day out in London.

Have you asked them why?

There are certain unspoken cultural norms in the UK people might not participate in all of them but they’re recognised as English if the ask AI to summarise it looks like this

1. Daily Quirks & Social Etiquette

Small Talk & Weather: Commenting on the rain, sun, or changing forecast is a national pastime used to break the ice and build rapport. The "Cuppa": Tea is the cornerstone of English social interaction—used to welcome guests, soothe crises, or simply take a break. Queuing: Patience and respect for lines are highly valued; orderly queuing is an unspoken social rule. Dry Sarcasm: A deadpan, sarcastic sense of humor is highly embraced and valued as a form of friendly banter.

1. Food & Drink

Pub Culture: The local pub is a neighborhood hub for socializing, eating, and relaxing. Classic Dishes: Staples include the hearty Full English Breakfast, Fish and Chips, and Sunday Roasts (meat, roasted potatoes, vegetables, and Yorkshire pudding). Cosmopolitan Shift: Because of England's diverse history, modern English cuisine relies heavily on global influences, particularly South Asian and Afro-Caribbean flavors.

1. Sports & Recreation

Football (Soccer): The sport is a national obsession. Local matches tie deeply into community and regional identities. National Sports: Modern versions of globally popular sports like cricket, rugby, tennis, and boxing all originated in England. Gardening: Tending to the garden or visiting local historical parks and country estates is a massive part of everyday English leisure.

1. Arts & Literature

England has produced some of the most celebrated creative works in history, laying the bedrock for Western literature and entertainment. Literary Giants: Writers like William Shakespeare, Charles Dickens, and Jane Austen. Music: A powerhouse for global pop and rock culture, producing acts like The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and Queen.

1. Traditions & Pageantry

English history is dotted with historic ceremonies, ranging from grand national events to incredibly quirky local village customs. National Events: Events steeped in pomp and circumstance, such as Trooping the Colour (the monarch's official birthday parade) and Bonfire Night (celebrating the foiling of Guy Fawkes' Gunpowder Plot). Local Customs: Unique, often ancient localized festivities such as the annual Cooper’s Hill Cheese-Rolling in Gloucestershire or Morris dancing on May Day.

I would say being English is knowledge of English cultural norms and participation in most. If you participate in other countries cultural norms etc it dilutes your Englishness. So if someone celebrates 4th July because their Father is American (as opposed to joining in their Fathers celebration of 4th of July without having an independent desire to celebrate it) I would think this would query their Englishness.

Tommy Robinson march in London.

I say England when I’m in France, I don’t know why but when I translate, England comes to mind first. I think it’s also more common to use England than UK when you’re abroad and someone asks. In Italy I said Britain and he asked which part so I just thought, meh I’ll stick to England abroad from now on.

British, from England. I've always seen British as nationality (me), English as ethnicity (not me).
However, I'm English for any sport supporting purposes.

For anyone asking about why British not English, many of us will have been born and raised here by foreign parents who had British passports under the colonial system, so maybe seems less like lying, idk.

The anti semites have a day out in London most weekends, but it doesn’t affect them being in here 24/7.

Yes of course. The people born here are English.

@rack909 I don't get it. Ofcourse they are English if they are born in England. Who would say they aren't?

Thanks.

** Anti genocide

All of the people on the Tommy march for starters...

^This 💯.

People may call themselves British as opposed to English because of how history played out. If your ethnicity originated from a place that was under the rule of the British Empire, your ancestors would have been British subjects with another ethnicity. That’s why I think people view “British” as devoid of ethnicity.

Having had people’s ethnicity on a helpline there are definitely some people who identify that way

i ask what is your ethnicity for example White-British, White-Other, Black or Black British African?

Answers vary but a lot respond, a lot will say white-British, Black African, white English or Welsh etc. The one which makes me as Indian origin feel pretty awful is “normal” - I have to be polite and have targets on number of people I speak to, so just reply “so White-British”

"If you participate in other countries cultural norms etc it dilutes your Englishness. So if someone celebrates 4th July because their Father is American (as opposed to joining in their Fathers celebration of 4th of July without having an independent desire to celebrate it) I would think this would query their Englishness."

Hmm. What about people who have baby showers? That's an American thing.
Don't you think that traditions can be taken from all over the world and mix together?

These days, they lock you up just for say you’re English. Don’t they, these days?

That's what I immediately thought.

But surely not every German has full German ancestry.
How many generations does it take to then become German.

If you were raised in Germany and had kids there then I’d have said your kids were German and definitely their kids would be German, even though they have English ancestors.

White Americans call themselves American, even though they’re white and that was never their ancestors country of origin.

They are British definitely, I find it funny that most people born in England don’t tend to identify as English but would probably call themselves British, but those born in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland definitely wouldn’t call themselves British