Would you say non-white people born & raised in England are English?

[rack909]

Just thought I should hear people’s perspective on this.

Some say it’s an ethnicity, some say it’s a nationality & others say it’s both of them.

I personally think it’s both a Nationality & ethnic group.

If someone says they are from England, they are denoting their nationality as English even if they don’t say it outright. It’s the same thing.

I can only speak for myself (fair hair, blue eyes, born in England with parents and grandparents who were also born in England), and I would describe myself as British. I'm a British subject, with a British passport. If someone asks where was I born, I'd say England. Is my 'ethnicity' English? No. Research back another generation or two, and there's immigrants from all over Europe in my family tree, and before that, who knows where from.

I suspect that these days, most people with English heritage going back generations call themselves British rather than English. You can be 'proud to be' Scottish, Welsh or Irish, but if you tell someone you are proud to be English, they will tend to assume you are a racist.

As far as I'm concerned, it is up to each individual how they would categorise themselves, and it is no-one else's business to do it for them.

Surely it’s both? Unless you think there are tens of millions of people in this country with no ethnicity.

Not English as I view that as an ethnicity. I would say British as that is a chosen identity in terms of how someone acts and behaves day in terms of the British values that we have (yes I know these values are not just for Britain). I have friends in London who are born and raised and educated and worked in the UK it is all they know and they identify with the UK particularly England and the southern cities far more than where their great grandparents etc were born in but they would not view themselves as English they would call themselves British due to the values. Hope this makes sense.

I don’t think that works, though it does suggest someone could be English without being entitled to an English passport. People of mixed heritages celebrate all of their ancestry.

I don’t do most of the things in this list, which seems like a catalogue of dated stereotypes, and in fact I abhor many of them

I think it depends a lot more on culture and attitude than skin colour etc.

I once spent a lot of time chatting by phone and online to a client and I never twigged he wasn't "white British" as he had a British accent, did typical British small talk about the whether, the football, told me about his visits to the seaside and holidays abroad to Tenerife etc, not religious, etc. I was absolutely gobsmacked when ID proof was beefed up and he sent me a scan of his passport - he was a huge jet black man! Born and bred in the UK hence why he acted and sounded British.

Just goes to show it's how someone acts rather than skin colour etc.

Instinctively, sure - Humza Yousaf is Scottish and Vaughan Gething is Welsh; so why wouldn't Rishi Sunak be English?

English CAN be an ethnicity, separate from the nationality - for example, groups like Daughters of the American Revolution require their members to prove their ancestors fought on the side of the 13 Colonies, so while they consider themselves "English" it's also a point of pride that it's been 12+ generations since their ancestors were actually IN England. But when people in the UK say "English" I think they usually mean the nationality, unless otherwise clarified. And if "English" CAN be a nationality AND an ethnicity, it wouldn't be correct to say someone ISN'T English when they fit ONE of those categories.

(Edited because I can't spell).

Nationality is a thing with a specific meaning though. National identity is another thing. So you can be Iraqi nationality and have a Kurdish national identity. You can’t have English nationality or Kurdish nationality.

Thing is white peoples settled from across Europe did settle in the UK. The. ThrBritish government did invite thousands of people from colonies or former colonies and other parts of the world to work, study or as refugees and they settled and British culture has changed in some ways, especially the range of food and food preferences. There are Indian and Chinese take aways across the country and they for the most part are serving food that has evolved for British taste. Vindaloo is possibly the most inauthentic dish ever but very popular. An authentic version in Goa is a very different dish with pork.

Why not?? I had this discussion with my very racist Ukrainian dad, who thought my lovely Black neighbour can not be English despite very obviously being English. But my dad is a product of his age and culture - I can't believe someone is asking this on here.

I overheard a convo with two black dudes laughing 'yeah cos if you are born in england, the English think you are English hahaha' as in how dumb English are .. shrug*

Yes

The culture of the British Isles has changed many times, such as after the Anglo-Saxon invasion, which changed the language and culture of Britain forever (from Romano-British).

Equally, the culture of other nations (e.g. India) changed due to the British Empire. English is still the official language (along with Hindi), though many languages (over 120) and dialects (almost 20k) are spoken.

Chinese is a nationality but not an ethnicity. The largest ethnic group in China is Han. But there are 55 (recognised) ethnicities as it’s a vast nation.

It is. 🤷

I don't understand why some English are just so self hating they vehemently deny they are ethnic group tbh.

I was born and raised in South Africa to white parents. My dna is almost entirely British.

I am 100% South African.

Sure you did.

Ridiculous question. Of course they are. And how are you defining “non-white”?

Millions and millions of people worldwide say they are Irish, despite not living in Ireland or holding an Irish passport. Identity, ethnicity and nationality all mix in werid ways.
I stick with legal nationality personally.

What ethnicity are they? Celt, Viking, Romano-British, Anglo-Saxon, Norman, Romany, Yoruba?

Nonsense, straight from the Tommy Robinson playbook.

I was born and brought up here to Asian parents. I feel far more English than Asian. But I say I am British because I don’t think I would be accepted as English.

Anyone born in England is English, regardless of race and heritage. Hth.

Hard one. On the face if it, 'yes' is the politically correct answer.

My friend was born in Japan to English parents.

She is absolutely not considered Japanese anywhere she goes, even (especially?) in Japan.

She has always felt torn on it, as she was born in Japan, but spent a lot of holidays in England, and her culture at home was largely English (English food, english language/tv and movies etc).